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Post by gazoo on Mar 6, 2018 13:32:54 GMT -5
There are a few guns that are over-tweaked and some that are under. These are the ones that immediately come to mind that I think do need a slight balance and here are my suggestions:
-Double Pistol: Change 4 round ammo to 2 rounds to even it out - ie, reload every other round. It is a bit overpowered. It has substantial damage and additionally damage breakpoints on the 10s (unlike most guns that lag below, for each 10 tier). Superior to the pistol in every way and possibly superior to the other handguns also imho.
-Hunting Rifle: Up the bonus damage on this to surpass the Jezail, perhaps by 10+%. It is currently about equivalent to a Jezail in damage (perhaps less considering the tier boost) but requires high caliber ammo...which makes it much less desirable for weight. Personally, I still wouldn't carry it due to the bullet weight, but that extra damage might make it attractive to some.
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Post by Kitsunenotsume on Mar 6, 2018 17:32:20 GMT -5
The pistol is the firearm equivilent of the Club and Quarterstaff. Every other firearm is supposed to be strictly better than it.
The Hunting Rifle get +25 damage over 100 ranks, while the Jezail only gets +20 over 100 ranks, as far as I was aware.
[Edit] having got home and looked at the tables, they both get +20/100
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Post by gazoo on Mar 6, 2018 19:50:53 GMT -5
I'll let the numbers speak. A few examples to make the point. 1Hguns (can use shield)
| tier 50
| tier 90 extrapolation
| Pistol (2 ammo, 10rpm)
| 12-24+7
| 12-24+13
| Revolver (6 ammo, 30 rpm)
| 10-22+7 | 10-22+12 | Double Pistol (4 ammo, 20rpm)
| 12-24 +10
| 12-24+18 | 2H guns
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| Jezail (4 ammo, 10rpm)
| 14-22+10
| 14-22+18 | Hunting Rifle (5ammo, 10rpm)
| 12-26+10
| 12-26+18
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So the double pistol is comparable to both the jezail and hunting rifle! Better than Jezail, in fact. Quite a bit better than revolver, and revolver is better damage than handgun and gunblade, Average base damage of Jezail (18) is comparable to average of Hunting Rifle (19). The tier damage increases at about the same rate. I would suggest Hunting Rifle base damage should be 25% higher which would be ~5 more damage. Or perhaps higher. The high cal ammo weight is a big trade-off. Double pistol profile is simply too good at present with 4 rounds. If you move before the second shot, you can drag it out to 10 rmp which means 4 shots at full AB or go with 20 rpm at 0/-5AB as you please. The 3rd shot of the revolver is at -10AB, so.....no advantage there (in fact in many cases a waste of ammo). And it allows a shield. Which is why I suggest limiting the Double Pistol to 2 ammo as balance. This still keeps the idea of a closing weapon: bang/bang... switch to melee weapon and go in.... |
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Post by Lugwy on Mar 6, 2018 23:48:40 GMT -5
BTW hunting rifles (and other high-cal weapons, really) can fire further than jezails.
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Post by gazoo on Mar 7, 2018 9:56:32 GMT -5
^ I ran a few tests to check this. I couldn't see any noticeable difference in the maximum engagement range.
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Post by Kitsunenotsume on Mar 7, 2018 10:53:41 GMT -5
Handguns have a maximum range of 50
Low-caliber guns have a max range of 100
High Caliber guns have a mas range of 200
Units are in-game units used by the engine.
For reference, one-unit is the range at which one can hit with a short-sword.
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Post by gazoo on Mar 7, 2018 11:07:40 GMT -5
Well, all I can say is that in practical terms, there is no difference from my tests and expereriences.
There seems to be a maximum engagement range for a ranged weapon, regardless.
Perhaps it is a game-engine limitation thing or a party visibility issue; in party with someone standing scout and the other far away....maybe. I've not come across this extending further.
Edit: When I get a chance, I'll test where I start a battle and leave a NPC in the area, then run far away and see what happens for the range limitation.
Edit2. Nope. Took an npc to the troll crossing, had him hold there and moved around getting an unobstructed firing line. No difference to range limitation. Hunting Rifle.
Edit3.
Did a little searching around for info on Nwn2 defaults. Distances are in meters. Long range is basically perception = 40 meters or 4 outside tiles. Distances in .2da are in meters...so anything >40 is likely long and at max combat distance anyways. Medium range is 20 (2 tiles). Short is 8m (one tile).
So I'm going to guess the engine combat limitation is 4 tiles.
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Post by Kitsunenotsume on Mar 7, 2018 16:15:37 GMT -5
But you didnt compare the max range of, say, a handgun to that hunting rifle?
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Post by gazoo on Mar 8, 2018 0:38:19 GMT -5
of course. I have noticed this distance limitation in a variety of battles with handguns, throwers, and various caliber guns. I wanted to verify the distance claim once more, though.
I suggest if you wish to continue this thought, you create a new post "understanding max distance" or workarounds or some such. I want to keep this on point, as the current mechanism stands.
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As per OP. TLDR: suggested gun balances:
-Double pistol - max 2 ammo to compensate for it being equivalent to both current jezail and hunting rifle, while allowing a shield.
-Hunting rifle - increase average base damage by 20-25% to compensate for 2xweight of ammo.
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