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Post by Kitsunenotsume on Mar 10, 2018 0:57:52 GMT -5
Based on looking through the base items 2da, it appears that there are ranged weapons of 3 maximum ranges: 50-metres: Shuriken, Throwing Hammer, and Handguns 100-metre: Throwing-Axe, Crossbows, Auto-crossbows, and Low-Caliber guns 200-metre: High-Caliber Guns However, based on various testing I have performed, I managed to confirm a slight issue pointed out by gazoo : Namely, that the maximum distance one can fire a weapon from of any variety is 40 metres, even when the Ranges.2da perception is set to further. With this in mind, I would like to suggest that the range brackets be adjusted to reflect, possibly with some adjustment to maximum perception distances if at all workable (I don't admit to trying very hard) Assuming we keep the same ratios, Long-Range could be set to 45 meters (as a security buffer), Medium range weapons set to 25 or 30, and short-range weapons set to 15. This would provide heavier and lighter calibers of weapon with a distinct flavor difference, and make weapon choices such as Pistols vs Rifles much more than simply damage packages. Preferred ranged will obviously also need to be adjusted to compensate. This might also resolve the imbalance pointed out in the Gazoo's guns tweak suggestion. |
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Post by gazoo on Mar 10, 2018 10:32:34 GMT -5
Going this route will mean a re-evaluation of every distance weapon. It could mean a large overhaul, though: thrown grenades will need to be less, as will feats with distance uses. Also, imho you'd be better off setting up AB range penalty brackets.
And no other handgun beside the double pistol would see use, if any in that range/damage profile -so the specific tweak is still necessary.
The 2 tweaks as I previously suggested are the simple fix for the current game. The range intervals had never been an issue before as it had never been noticed in play. (see the previous post in suggestions re: tweaks for guns)
BGTSC currently has/had a cover system for ranged. For example, if your target is close to an obstacle or you/target is behind a creature/party member = you get an AB penalty. I could potentially see a big ranged rewrite for something like this. A collection of these AB penalties can add up fairly high as they were additive.
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Post by Kitsunenotsume on Mar 10, 2018 18:12:15 GMT -5
I did suggest Range Increments before, but it didn't really get any attention, and polling distances to adjust total AB for auto-attacks is heavily inefficient and is likely to cause complications far beyond out current issues of AB validation. And, generally speaking, any AB changes should have clear and consistent reasons (such as Knockdown), whereas the to-hit DC should be the portion to vary depending on difficulty. I don't see that a large overhaul will be required: as you pointed out already Pistols get Shields anyway, and as it stands grenades already have ranged penalties. There isn't any particular requirement to change ability distances, and if there is, they are comparatively easy to bake range increments into. I don't really see how "only a double-pistol would see use', because for all the dozens of times I've heard those sorts of claims here, it's never actualized for any of them. Simply because a feature has not been commented on does not mean it is working as intended, simply that it was sufficiently favorable to the players that no-one thought to bring it up. The range differences exist in the database, but simply do not impact players in any meaningful way to realize that they exist, and thus are not known to comment about. I don't know what BGTSC is, but adding AC vs Range for being in cover (of which we already have for stealth) might be possible. |
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Post by gazoo on Mar 10, 2018 18:34:24 GMT -5
It makes little sense that you can throw bombs/feats/etc as far as pistols, unless they are flintlock muskets. Probably would need to restrict them to about the same range as shotguns (about 2 tiles).
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Post by Kitsunenotsume on Mar 10, 2018 19:09:34 GMT -5
Grenades currently have a maximum range of 20 meters, which imposes a +5 to the DC.
Bombs currently have a range of 7 or 8 meters (and a blast radius of about 4 or 5)
For comparison, Shotguns have a range of 30 (Hunting), 20 (Buckshot), 15 (Military), or 12 (Heater).
My ideal situation would be improving ranges at which you can use weapons, but that would be largely moot point, considering most combat is done well within 30 meters (the current 'preferred range' for all ranged weapons, which is what a character will run to when out-of range)
However, my concern is not about anachronism so much as game mechanics, but pistols and double pistols are basically flintlocks based on their icons, appearance, and lore (ammo compaction notwithstanding), and we have shotguns used at the same ranged as sniper rifles.
I'm not sure what feats you are talking about, but I thought it was Sneak Attack, Hail of Bullets, etc. I think I am mistaken.
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sparky
Chesterfields
Wishing Well Repair Man
Posts: 243 
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Post by sparky on Mar 11, 2018 3:43:22 GMT -5
I mean, range differences between the guns would be cool
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Post by Lugwy on Mar 11, 2018 12:01:46 GMT -5
BTW having sampled BGTSCC’s cover system for a bit, it’s quite...arbitrary. It’s not uncommon to have an open field between you and the target in broad daylight and get an AB penalty out of nowhere. In that server you can stack enough AB that it’s not a big deal to get the occasional penalty, but an unpredictable AB here is going to be more detrimental than helpful unless PE pulls a rabbit out of his hat.
Identifying ranged weapons by effective range would be interesting, though, and give them a further niche beyond damage profiles.
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