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Post by drunkensolamnic on May 15, 2018 22:44:43 GMT -5
Detect advancement is still lagging behind general progress of skills. I've now managed to max all but my last tier of skills to 80 in the labyrnith, but my detect has yet to reach level 74. This is the skill I use all the time, every trip, with 4 feats invested into the search line. It is essentially a primary skill for my character, in comparison her other primary skills are between 80-82, even though for most of them i'm using gear 10 or more levels under.
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Post by electrohydra on May 16, 2018 1:24:29 GMT -5
I can confirm this. It's consistently lagging a few ranks behind my Lockpicking skill, which I have the same investment in and serves a similar role.
I think one of the main culprits is that unlike most skills, you get 0 xp for failing at Detect. Armor skills increase if you get hit, lockpicking gets partial xp for completing certain tumblers, demolition will grant you xp even if you miss your main target, etc. If your Detect starts lagging behind even just a little, then it will lag behind more and more as the lower it is, the less xp you get from it.
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Post by gazoo on May 16, 2018 12:25:21 GMT -5
Imho, this is a combination of factors.
There are basically 3 factors that I've found to be significant.
1. Some nodes have a level limit, some even below the max window of the area. I think this is related to the chest loot tier rating, but still...it should give xp until area limit is reached. Likely just needs watching the numbers and feedback of the specific chests.
2. Some chests give very low detect xp (a few points!). Most of these can be reported in feedback and will be fixed = you need to watch the numbers to report it.
3. Some areas have hidden creatures that give nice detect xp. For example, detecting Mastiffs in the Sedis Maze is quite good for this (Mastiffs are not all bad ) But many of the other high areas such as Dwarven Ruins or Atlantis have no or rare hidden creature detect opportunities...or perhaps the specific detect xp needs upping for hidden creatures (Thinking very low or zero xp Pirate Cove hidden pirates iirc
Also, whereas combat skills have tons of opportunities due to the sheer number of mobs, the main limiting xp factor in detect is the number of things to detect. One idea is that you could stick in more items that use detect in each area. More items = more chances to get xp. Maybe they don't even have to be loot: diaries, notes, whatever.
Not so sure I'm a fan of getting xp for failing to see something. I could see some limited xp award for missing the roll by 1 or 2= which might mean that you noticed something odd but couldn't quite figure it out.
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Post by Kitsunenotsume on May 16, 2018 18:21:27 GMT -5
There was a plan in motion last year or the year before by Fuzz to introduce lore or detail detect nodes to dungeons. The intent being to simply give more opportunities for Detect to work, without altering drop-rates or expected wealth-per-dungeon.
I have no idea whether it got anywhere, or what state it was left in, since I think the intent was to finish node palettes for most dungeons before releasing it.
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Post by electrohydra on May 16, 2018 21:20:46 GMT -5
The Axebeak dungeon has these, it's pretty neat.
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Post by Psionic-Entity on May 17, 2018 18:13:47 GMT -5
I'll take up the multiplier a bit, and add a larger bonus for detecting over-level stuff. Pointing out specific areas where it's hard to get detect XP would also be helpful.
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Post by drunkensolamnic on May 18, 2018 21:02:57 GMT -5
Sedis Labrinyth and the Dwarven Ruins down past the lady in the lake come to mind. My detect bar barely moves in those areas when I'm successful. I think sometimes its been as low as 5xp for a success or 0.
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Post by Psionic-Entity on May 19, 2018 10:09:40 GMT -5
How long does it usually take to detect stuff in those areas? The labyrinth in particular seems pretty well set up with detectable loot nodes at the right levels.
The ruins after the valley, on the other hand, needed some serious tidying up (those areas are ancient) so that'll be fixed next update.
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Post by drunkensolamnic on May 19, 2018 10:38:49 GMT -5
Usually takes me about sixty-seconds to detect things. Would it matter that a lot of the Sedis placables are not concealed to start with? They have hidden traps, but traps have never given the xp that finding the box has given.
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Post by Psionic-Entity on May 19, 2018 10:57:55 GMT -5
Trapped placeables can't start as hidden because you can detect the trap before actually finding the placeable. Not sure what you're saying about traps and XP.
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Post by Kitsunenotsume on May 19, 2018 11:04:49 GMT -5
My understanding of drunkensolamnic is saying is that Detecting a trap does not give the XP that Detecting a box does, I think, despite needing Detect skill to be located in the first place.
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Post by gazoo on May 19, 2018 12:49:57 GMT -5
Traps give decent xp, often better than the chest itself. However, a trap will only give xp once per reset, whereas the chest will usually give xp each time.
I can't remember how it works for failing the trap detect and triggering -iirc the one-time detect xp is avail until detected.
As I mentioned in a prior post, some chests and mine nodes do seem to reach an xp tier threshold before the actual area window max. So you'll have to basically watch each one as you detect for the numbers. Some of the higher tier chests are pretty hard to detect, as well, needing rolls near top of area window. The information on the chest (level info) should give some insight to the likely culprits.
Dwarven Ruins traps give reasonable xp, but the chests and nodes are hard to detect requiring minimum detect of the bottom window required (even with bonuses from monocle and potions). There are also a few easier-to-detect and far below-tier chests that seem to give little to no xp as well as sub-par tier loot. Again, watching the numbers is needed to report.
My conclusion: Sedis has tons of chests of which only about 1/2 go past mid-window - which still leaves quite a few and the Mastiffs for the remainder, but Dwarven Ruins has only a very limited numbers of appropriate chests which do significantly decrease in xp past mid-tier window.
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Post by drunkensolamnic on May 21, 2018 12:15:31 GMT -5
If it helps narrow this down, I seem to not get xp for spotting hidden enemies in Sedis, and I'm also occasionally getting no xp reward at all for detecting the traps. I do get xp if I manage to damage a mastiff after detecting them, its just rare to pull that off considering their movement speed in stealth and dodge ac.
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Post by gazoo on May 21, 2018 13:19:59 GMT -5
I also forgot that when I ran these areas, I had accumulated a fair bxp bonus and had turned off everything else. So my observations were with 2x -3x the true values.
I think you will have to observe the numbers before and after to report the exact detect xp values you are seeing. That might mean writing down each and every detect action/result for your detect tier. A pain in the ass, yes, but it will clearly define issues (both individual and also indicate a dungeon-wide issue).
At the time, I was carefully watching the mob damage/ability numbers for tweaks and only mentally noting the detect trends in general.
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Post by electrohydra on Jun 1, 2018 23:29:01 GMT -5
Just finished the cavern dungeon under the living trees again and I'm not sure if I was just unlucky, but it did seem hard to get detect xp. All of the chests where non-hidden except the ones where the Umber Hulk is.
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