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Post by scarlet on Sept 3, 2016 15:17:00 GMT -5
We discussed this on Discord a little but I would like to suggest that the xp gains for skills be increased overall. Right now, despite being "Low level" as it were it is the norm to run an entire dungeon (or three) and not get a single full skill level. This makes just getting your skills to the ranks needed for the starting ranks of abilities such as Charge or Two-Weapon Rend seem to take forever as well as a feeling of spinning your wheels in the mud without getting any traction for a character that is just starting out.
When I was at rank 5 and 6s in my combat skills I would run Undead and Bandits and not get a single skill level increase in Medium armor, Two-handed or First Aid from running them both.
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Post by Psionic-Entity on Sept 3, 2016 15:19:06 GMT -5
I'd be interested in knowing if this is related to caps or to gain rates. Are you still getting some XP at the end of the dungeon or does it stop partway through? Any particular skills that are having trouble?
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Post by scarlet on Sept 3, 2016 15:22:01 GMT -5
At this point I was a fairly new character and was still getting xp, though it was very very slow. Or at times, like last night (now in the low teens) I would not get xp for three or four mobs in a dungeon (or very little, like 1 per fight) and one mob would give me a bigger chunk (like 20-30xp) then back to getting almost nothing.
There are times when I've "capped" but I know from playing beta what that is like, this is first time runs in a day or two and very little xp.
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Post by Kaybrie on Sept 3, 2016 17:25:48 GMT -5
I find that skills FLY up extremely fast when I have bonus exp, but the second I don't have it everything slows to a crawl. With 25 weapons and a 23 dual wielding skill if I don't have bonus exp I'll be lucky if my bar moves up by 1/5th of the level in a full run through the factory (aimed for levels 20-35).
Also; my detection and lockpicking skills are going up disproportionately slowly. I'm always actively trying to detect things but I've only managed to get 4 levels in detect in the same time I've got rank 24 in other skills. I pick every lock in most dungeon's in that time solo or with groups and my lockpicking skill is only at 12 by comparison.
Just some thing's I've observed
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Post by kingofaquilonia on Sept 3, 2016 19:06:54 GMT -5
Detect xp is almost impossible to get for me. Even when you do detect something it gives such a piddly amount its rather agitating.
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Post by Rekov on Sept 3, 2016 19:23:30 GMT -5
Here are some data from my latest run of the factory (20-35):
Marksman (20) - 231 sXP gained
Light Armor (12) - 444 sXP gained
Stealth (22) - 361 sXP gained
Detect (7) - 185 sXP gained
The thing slowing me down at this point is lack of affordable access to level appropriate gear. The options are to pay a steeply inflated price at an NPC vendor or wait for PC crafters to catch up.
As for the general perception of slow progress, I think a lot more of that has to do with how many different things there are to level, and how little each one actually does. Leveling skills doesn't actually give any benefit until you hit a multiple of ten, or in some cases a multiple of five to unlock access to an ability. Then, the bonus just from leveling the skill sometimes doesn't even take effect until you have level appropriate items.
Many abilities undoubtedly have an effect, but it's not an effect that the player obviously notices, and would only be noticeable at all in a statistical analysis. A good example of this is Precise Shooting I. Can anyone honestly say they can tell the difference between a 300% crit and a 310% crit? Or with Precise Shooting (II) twenty whole skill ranks later, the difference between 310% and 320%, and even smaller factor of difference? I am sure it has an effect, but you don't notice it like you would with Weapon Master's Increased Multiplier.
The same holds true at high levels, where Steady Aim gives 1% increases to crit chance when standing still. Absolutely nobody is going to feel like their character is more powerful when they get +1% to crits, and it is a far cry from Weapon Master's Ki Critical to say the least.
This is not to say that it isn't possible to make your character significantly more powerful, but it happens through a combination of skills, abilities, gear, potions, and you never notice the increases in power in the way you might in traditional NWN2, when a new level meant new spells, spell damage going up by a d6, +1 to hit, or an extra attack, etc.
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Post by kaincallavis on Sept 5, 2016 11:55:27 GMT -5
Again, my unpopular opinion arises...
Color me the black sheep, but I am a fan of it taking a while to generate these levels.
It gives the higher up players genuine pride in what they have, knowing it took time and effort to train themselves to be efficient killing machines and in the very long run, it prolongs the life of the server.
Inevitably people become bored when they fully cap out. Not everyone, but a definitely noticeable portion. That portion would eventually start fading away, leaving less for the die-hards to roleplay with.
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Someone who has spent a month or two should still be able to play with a newer player, one of the most innovative things about this server is that it *IS* possible for higher players to play -and fight- with newer players.
But they should have pride, knowing they worked on their skillset with a lot of ferver and dedication and that joe-shmoe is not going to be their immediate rival skill-wise in 2 days time.
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For people who have less time, I do think a steady trickle of "offline bonus XP" should be a thing.
Say, after 4 hours you get 1k bonus xp... every hour after that you get 250 more.
It's not much, but it would help offset the curve a little for people who are very busy and can't afford the time to play as much as their friends.
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Post by Fuzz on Sept 5, 2016 14:17:47 GMT -5
It's been barely 2 weeks and we already have players in the mid 20s. Granted, progression gets slower the further along you get, but I think we're currently in a good spot because there's always something more to aim for. If we speed things up, at the rate some players are going now they will already be hitting 100ish skills by probably Xmas, if not earlier, and at that point, where do you go? The journey is the point, not the end, and while we do have plenty of 100+ content with more being added and planned, there's something to be said about getting there... call me old fashioned, but I'm of the school where the journey is the bulk of what you do, and getting a skill to 100/getting to max level is a true accomplishment that makes you stand out, not just something that everyone has to do.
Maybe it's the 80s gamer in me, I could give a veritable lecture on how gaming trends have ruined people's scope of how progression should work by making games easy to beat, but I digress.
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Post by scarlet on Sept 5, 2016 14:51:59 GMT -5
My complaint/issue is with the first 5-10 skill ranks, not after that. Before then you don't have any real abilities and combat is extremely difficult because you have not gotten anything gear wise and the grind feels incredibly slow. Im in the low 20s now at it feels okay.
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Post by kingofaquilonia on Sept 5, 2016 14:58:08 GMT -5
XP gains on everything except for hunting and detect seems fine to me.
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Post by Kaybrie on Sept 5, 2016 15:13:13 GMT -5
Detect is abysmally bad, and I almost feel like the person with the highest detect just always gets to detect things at the moment. Whenever I bring Nyssandre with me or go with a group I won't find anything, ever.
Lockpicking also seems really slow, as I pointed out in my post, my higher combat skills are in the mid twenties, while my lockpicking, a skill that I use at least three times a dungeon run right now is still sitting comparatively low at 13.
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Post by Lugwy on Sept 5, 2016 16:11:05 GMT -5
Detect seems to be a slow-leveling skill, all things considered, and it also runs into the issue that only one person that passes the check gets the EXP bonus. Possible suggestion: All players that pass the hidden Detect check to spot the placeable get the Detect EXP, not just the first one to spot it.
Lockpicking rises faster than that (hint: when doing traps, check all of the unknown components), and it's easy to take turns with a bit of coordination. Not sure how to make it more party-friendly really, except give every party member a tiny portion of lockpicking EXP (presumably they're watching the picker do their thing).
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Post by Psionic-Entity on Sept 5, 2016 16:19:43 GMT -5
Detect already gives XP to everyone who passes the detect roll.
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Post by drunkensolamnic on Sept 5, 2016 19:48:58 GMT -5
Would it be possible to perhaps put a window on it? say everyone who passes the check within 3-5 rounds of the first to do so?
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Post by Kitsunenotsume on Sept 5, 2016 20:35:16 GMT -5
The check is made agaisnt the party. everyone in detect mode when the item is located is considered. If the entire party is in detect mode, and can hit the DC, regardless of distance, they get the XP. What would be the timer be for?
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