|
Post by Felight on Oct 17, 2016 18:41:12 GMT -5
Hey, thought I'd write down some stuff I didn't enjoy and gave a headache. Anyway starting with the character creation, the crafting perks feel utterly useless to be there when it will take longer to even get into crafting, get items required for it and to even know what kind of items there are available to craft. This made my first time playing just unbearably disappointing and causing me to restart. The airship, the lack of direction and where to go the first time around before you get to your room was pretty annoying. The ship could use signs to guide the passengers into their cabins, also I noticed the walkmesh and transitioning to the last floor is glitchy with letting you appear inside the blocked staircase. Personally I am not enjoying the inner dialogue the character is placed in due to the way it molds the thoughts of the character into this broody and forces establishing the emotions of events rather than just describing what is happening around them. It feels the game is roleplaying the character and not the player due to the god-moding. Some notes on the prologue. - Elvin mentions its a good thing the character is armed, when it is possible they are not by picking not to take any from the cabin.
- In the bandit hideout's southeast corner (I think) where the knight's pack is, a spear using enemy that is able to quite easily able kill the character and is heavily armored with always bringing a friend from the other side of the room. I felt this particular minion is much more difficult even alone than the leader of the bandits himself is.
- Allowing resting without limit near the knight would help unlucky characters as if you rest before going in to the hideout, you won't be able to rest yet when you come out.
- Beggar's Cross, the way to the dwarven fence is a bit difficult to make due to bad lighting and pathing. If the vendor by the inn would able to direct the character to him, it would make it easier for people who get lost.
- The rotwurm is impossible to solo. Armor does nothing against the unending acid and sonic attacks that auto hit for 20 and 10 damage, hell I even sometimes almost die with the knight when the wurm shoots acid bolts from the other side of the room. Making characters who kept the armor get stuck as the dragon has to be killed. Using potions will only make it so you'll die later and have no potions next time.
Lastly as a gnome, there was no mention of registering as a mainland gnome when you get a pass from the officer.
|
|
|
Post by Lugwy on Oct 17, 2016 22:36:10 GMT -5
With regards to the rotwurm, an observant player can get something that makes the fight easier. If you gained Helen's help, it's prudent to let her charge and fight the creature first before moving to engage yourself. As for the gnome part, an option to be a "mainlander" may be in the pipes but I don't know an ETA for that one.
Usually the lighting is decent until you get a torch/nightvision potions. The darkened areas are there to teach the player to use them. If torches bug out for you, try dropping them, picking them up, and re-equipping them. That unbugs them after a brief delay.
The bad pathing issues I agree with. Noir tone helps set the mood, but it does feel like godmodding at times if your character isn't a world-weary cynic. Fortunately as far as the staff is concerned, the tutorial is considered non-canon (officially, it's just Helen that downs the critter).
|
|
|
Post by Fuzz on Oct 18, 2016 10:40:48 GMT -5
Hey, thought I'd write down some stuff I didn't enjoy and gave a headache. Anyway starting with the character creation, the crafting perks feel utterly useless to be there when it will take longer to even get into crafting, get items required for it and to even know what kind of items there are available to craft. This made my first time playing just unbearably disappointing and causing me to restart. The airship, the lack of direction and where to go the first time around before you get to your room was pretty annoying. The ship could use signs to guide the passengers into their cabins, also I noticed the walkmesh and transitioning to the last floor is glitchy with letting you appear inside the blocked staircase. Personally I am not enjoying the inner dialogue the character is placed in due to the way it molds the thoughts of the character into this broody and forces establishing the emotions of events rather than just describing what is happening around them. It feels the game is roleplaying the character and not the player due to the god-moding. Some notes on the prologue. - Elvin mentions its a good thing the character is armed, when it is possible they are not by picking not to take any from the cabin.
- In the bandit hideout's southeast corner (I think) where the knight's pack is, a spear using enemy that is able to quite easily able kill the character and is heavily armored with always bringing a friend from the other side of the room. I felt this particular minion is much more difficult even alone than the leader of the bandits himself is.
- Allowing resting without limit near the knight would help unlucky characters as if you rest before going in to the hideout, you won't be able to rest yet when you come out.
- Beggar's Cross, the way to the dwarven fence is a bit difficult to make due to bad lighting and pathing. If the vendor by the inn would able to direct the character to him, it would make it easier for people who get lost.
- The rotwurm is impossible to solo. Armor does nothing against the unending acid and sonic attacks that auto hit for 20 and 10 damage, hell I even sometimes almost die with the knight when the wurm shoots acid bolts from the other side of the room. Making characters who kept the armor get stuck as the dragon has to be killed. Using potions will only make it so you'll die later and have no potions next time.
Lastly as a gnome, there was no mention of registering as a mainland gnome when you get a pass from the officer.
Hiya, and first off thanks for checking out our server! This is great feedback, so thanks for that. I'll address the stuff I can, in order: - Crafting is a more advanced discipline, this is true, and it does require some understanding of how our crafting system works. Character creation allows you to pick any Talents that have no skill requirements (since all of your skills are zero) and that is why it's included in the creation automatically. Some players might want to roll a fresh character, choose a crafting Talent, and then Skip the tutorial entirely and go straight into the world to begin crafting, and indeed several players have already done this. I can understand how they would be a frustrating Talent for combat and whatnot, but honestly that is not unlike the default D&D system which also allows Wizards and Sorcerors to take Scribe Scroll at level 1... doing so would nerf an already weak combat class at low level, but it's still allowed because of how the rules work. - We'll look into the airship interior navigation, as I believe someone else may have mentioned a similar navigation issue previously in Discord... maybe some simple map notes on the overhead map would be a good way to direct you downstairs and then to your cabin door. - The inner dialogue and really the entire tutorial in general is meant to not only teach you the system, but also give you a solid taste of the theme and vibe of the server. This was done intentionally because our setting is Steampunk, and while many players may be familiar with steampunk and its overall aesthetic, we wanted to show regular NWN2 players, who are mostly used to fantasy, just how big of a departure from the standard fantasy setting this server is. The entirety of the tutorial is considered out of character and ultimately has no bearing on how you RP your character (perhaps we should a special message about this at the start), and in fact there is only actually one current PC on the entire server that even claims to have come from Azure City via an airship... all the others sailed to or grew up in Calidor or another region, and have drastically different backstories that suit their specific characters. We definitely want people to be creative and make their character unique and their own, so don't feel like that tutorial is forcing your PC to act a certain way after you finish it! - Good call on Elvin, his dialogue should probably be tweaked. - We'll look into the spawns, one of them could have been overtuned for the area, as bugs can crop up. Thanks for pointing this out. - Having a small rest area by Ser Helen is a good idea, maybe one could be added in and she could be placed next to it, kind of like she setup a small rest area to recover. - At this point in the tutorial you should have a few options for lighting your path. Beggar's Cross is actually linked to the main game world at that point and isn't a separate tutorial area that's isolated on its own... you can actually ignore the Fence and just leave the Cross and not complete the tutorial quest chain if you want, that's how open it is! Because it's a main server area, however, there's a limitation on how much information we can throw on the minimap or how much lighting we can insert because ultimately the Cross is supposed to be dark, dreary, and rather maze-like. The dialogue options for the tutorial could possibly be tweaked a bit to make the directions for where you need to go a little more detailed/clearer, though... we'll take a look at that. - The rotwurm is pretty tough, yes, but he's specifically designed to be beatable regardless of what you choose to do with Helen's armor. If you choose to return it to her and fight alongside her, Helen can actually easily defeat the creature by herself, without your help. If you choose to keep her armor, you can wear it yourself and easily achieve the same result... the armor is actually specially setup specifically to allow you to defeat the rotwurm... it's not stated overtly because it's a sort of magician's trick to make the tutorial 100% completable regardless of your build (anyone can equip any type of armor in our system). If you choose to fight it alone without looking for Helen's armor at all, yes, it will be quite difficult, but then again after you die you can go and retrieve Helen's armor, put it on, and defeat the rotwurm. It's a lot less exciting than it seems when you know all this, I agree, which is why we don't tell the player this and let them figure that out on their own... ultimately, you have all the tools you need to defeat the creature, regardless of your choice in the conversation. If you threw away the armor or all the lockpicks and then also told Helen off, well... consider that a lesson in making poor decisions, which is an equally valid point of the tutorial, as making poor and self-destructive choices on this server will make your PC not last very long once you're in a real DM event and/or dealing with other PCs. - The mainland gnome lore was added after the tutorial was completed, so yeah, that's an oversight that can be fixed. Ultimately all gnomes are the same, physiologically, and whatever you tell the officer has no realy mechanical effect on your character or their RP, but you're right, it should be in there as an option. Hope all that helps, and thanks for pointing out the stuff we need to look at! See you ingame hopefully!
|
|
xisu
Just Wandered In
Shoots first, asks questions later.
Posts: 30
|
Post by xisu on Oct 18, 2016 12:00:13 GMT -5
Rotwurm is a tough fight. Someone not used to mechanis in this realm will find it difficult if they shaft helan for the armor. I think more should be said about things like Grenades in the tutorial as on the char that i chose to shaft helan with used those to gain an advantage. Also i think the delay on Frags should be shortaned abit you throw it and the mobs across the room are ontop of you before it ever goes off.
|
|
|
Post by kaincallavis on Oct 18, 2016 14:26:46 GMT -5
Here is the advice I gave some of my friends who did not like the inner monologue of the character:
Treat this tutorial as though it were NOT your character. Instead this is merely the story of some OTHER Calidorian who made his way to Calidor...
You do not have to roleplay that this is how you arrived. None of my wife or my characters crashed on the Titan to make their way to Calidor. If everyone made it to Calidor that way it would be immersion breaking...
Just treat any tutorial related features as though it were a story you heard about someone else. Then decide RP-wise how YOUR character made it to town.
|
|
xisu
Just Wandered In
Shoots first, asks questions later.
Posts: 30
|
Post by xisu on Oct 19, 2016 9:32:30 GMT -5
I'll put this here rather than spamming cause it really is under New player and First Impressions.
Last Night had a harrowing experiance that was not Good for the server or its longevity. It Comes in sheer Difficulty to solo at all. Now this wasn't Careless Solo, this was grab a companion who takes part of the reward to make completion more possible., Then have that fact strait and the Tank companion fail you. This happened as the mobs pulled the perhaps the luckiest streak of rolls i've ever seeen. I mean serious it was roll after roll of 15 to hit and 15+damage to both him and my character. round after round of the most brutal beatdown... Mind you this was not a boss this was just 2 mooks before hitting the last room. Needless to say I went down then watched the companion in Heavy armor summerly get buzzsawed serious it was 10 rounds of Smack 15 damage smacke 18 damage smack 13 dfamage. then after that small run of badluck ok I go down thats where I was metaphorically raped. Most games just take some gold and experiance send you to the temple and call it day. No this game tooke every Item I earned worked my ass for that dungeon and more money on top of and shoved me out the door. Perhaps the most brutal as it gets without permakilling yah. this wouldn't be so bad if say you could go back in and well start all over. nope you got to wait hours because none of the chest will spawn anything and Mobs will be rare and non excistant. so basically not just got all your stuffed nabbed the game itself told you to fuck off afterwards/
I was pissed wanted to rage quit. This is not a feeling any new player should feel its method and existance can hamper the longevity of this server. to be fair I like this server its something different in theme and play and I like being part of those things. But this should never be an experiance a player can run into. it should also keep in mind that this slows progression harshly for newer player as older players with there larger group base go off and do there big boy dungeons. the newer player tries to solo to catch up and well meats A BIG FUCK you in the face, Party up fool. will seriously hamper its longevity.
I think one area this can be improved without losing the death penalty is that these new player areas, the graveyard and the Hideout can have some some marked save areas where proggression up to that point can be saved. right now those locations are All or nothing dungeons leaving another brutal Difficulty level for the low levels.
|
|
|
Post by drunkensolamnic on Oct 19, 2016 11:07:20 GMT -5
Where were you?
|
|
|
Post by Kaybrie on Oct 19, 2016 11:18:12 GMT -5
Xisu; firstly what are you using? Weapons and armor sets specifically.
Do you utilize stealth? If so, do you use smoke grenades?
Do you utilize concussion or Cryo grenades? If you hit an NPC with it, they become dazed/frozen and will stop attacking for a while so long as they're not hit.
Nobody can do anything about the NPC's rolling well on hits/damage and you rolling poorly on armor (assuming you're in medium or heavy).
What level are you? Because up to a certain point new players -are- actually protected from the death penalty on the server, which is if you die you lose the progress you made doing that dungeon. And it isn't really a matter of party up fool, since there are tons of instances where huge parties of the most veteran, skilled beta player's get wiped because they force dungeon's to over spawn to compensate for the bloated swarm flying toward it.
If you're worried about your ability to do dungeon's solo, ask some of those veterans to go along with you, some of them even get benefits from going to those low level dungeon's (detect training and RP exp) and have a history of taking newbies along and helping them get established.
The server is largely about using the array of tools you have available to win the day, and as a player who has spent the majority of the time doing runs solo, what you're describing is just a reality of going solo.
I hope I've given you some more tools to consider working with though. PE can weigh in on rest area's in the lowbie dungeons.
|
|
|
Post by Lugwy on Oct 19, 2016 11:32:32 GMT -5
My money's on the player being in the graveyard, as that's where Errol directs players to despite the fact it is not considered a Noob Cave by any means. Dialogue being reworked to point towards the beetle caves and/or red light sewers, with a thrown-in suggestion to try the graveyard if they got chops to handle it, would make the new player experience less harrowing.
Dice screwing you over is a story we're all familiar with and not something that can be fixed, unfortunately. Heck, last night the Diver handed me my butt in an unprecedented four rounds tops because the dice decided to like him and all but one or two of his attack rolls were over 10. Dice screwage is especially notable as you don't get as much insurance against it as other PWs, like triple-digit heals, crit immunity, and sky-high AC among others. It's like (and it is) being low level.
|
|
|
Post by electrohydra on Oct 19, 2016 12:13:42 GMT -5
Here's the thing you're all missing : He/She isn't asking for advice, he/she is saying death is a terrible feeling that just makes you want to log out (And possibly not log in again.) And I tend to agree. And while you can't fix dice screwing, you CAN fix how harsh the death penalty is.
|
|
xisu
Just Wandered In
Shoots first, asks questions later.
Posts: 30
|
Post by xisu on Oct 19, 2016 13:31:32 GMT -5
What electro said. And and the death event happened near the end of the bandit hideout. Which is marked 0-10. Im level 4 ithink ... have 6 total abilities.
I xisu is a leather wearing marksman user. And cyro bombs and smoke grenades are expensive as hell for some just starting out. 75 bucks for a one use item... infact just getting geared nearly requires the good will and luck of another player being available. The trade area seriusly lacks low cost choices for starting chars.
I think a vender that specializes on level 5 items at dirt cheap prices may help in that regard. Make thes items sold as uncraftable like Helans armor to avoid crafting abuse for higher ups.
|
|
eldwen
Chesterfields
Posts: 72
|
Post by eldwen on Oct 19, 2016 14:37:22 GMT -5
I think a level 5 item vendor for weapons/armor would be something worth looking into. It would allow early characters just a little bit extra while they get their footing in such a different system compared to other PW's.
|
|
|
Post by drunkensolamnic on Oct 19, 2016 16:44:53 GMT -5
we have this, in the beggar's nest.
|
|
xisu
Just Wandered In
Shoots first, asks questions later.
Posts: 30
|
Post by xisu on Oct 19, 2016 17:08:20 GMT -5
I was thinking in the trade district which is kind of the defacto gather grounds. Also someone other than lief who sells lockpicks? Also players that dont go the for the deal with the Ccp route and choose frontgate which is constantly suggested way through tutorial. May not even know how to get back to Beggers.
|
|
|
Post by Felight on Oct 20, 2016 6:07:22 GMT -5
Hey, thought I'd write down some stuff I didn't enjoy and gave a headache. Anyway starting with the character creation, the crafting perks feel utterly useless to be there when it will take longer to even get into crafting, get items required for it and to even know what kind of items there are available to craft. This made my first time playing just unbearably disappointing and causing me to restart. The airship, the lack of direction and where to go the first time around before you get to your room was pretty annoying. The ship could use signs to guide the passengers into their cabins, also I noticed the walkmesh and transitioning to the last floor is glitchy with letting you appear inside the blocked staircase. Personally I am not enjoying the inner dialogue the character is placed in due to the way it molds the thoughts of the character into this broody and forces establishing the emotions of events rather than just describing what is happening around them. It feels the game is roleplaying the character and not the player due to the god-moding. Some notes on the prologue. - Elvin mentions its a good thing the character is armed, when it is possible they are not by picking not to take any from the cabin.
- In the bandit hideout's southeast corner (I think) where the knight's pack is, a spear using enemy that is able to quite easily able kill the character and is heavily armored with always bringing a friend from the other side of the room. I felt this particular minion is much more difficult even alone than the leader of the bandits himself is.
- Allowing resting without limit near the knight would help unlucky characters as if you rest before going in to the hideout, you won't be able to rest yet when you come out.
- Beggar's Cross, the way to the dwarven fence is a bit difficult to make due to bad lighting and pathing. If the vendor by the inn would able to direct the character to him, it would make it easier for people who get lost.
- The rotwurm is impossible to solo. Armor does nothing against the unending acid and sonic attacks that auto hit for 20 and 10 damage, hell I even sometimes almost die with the knight when the wurm shoots acid bolts from the other side of the room. Making characters who kept the armor get stuck as the dragon has to be killed. Using potions will only make it so you'll die later and have no potions next time.
Lastly as a gnome, there was no mention of registering as a mainland gnome when you get a pass from the officer.
- Having a small rest area by Ser Helen is a good idea, maybe one could be added in and she could be placed next to it, kind of like she setup a small rest area to recover. - The rotwurm is pretty tough, yes, but he's specifically designed to be beatable regardless of what you choose to do with Helen's armor. If you choose to return it to her and fight alongside her, Helen can actually easily defeat the creature by herself, without your help. If you choose to keep her armor, you can wear it yourself and easily achieve the same result... the armor is actually specially setup specifically to allow you to defeat the rotwurm... it's not stated overtly because it's a sort of magician's trick to make the tutorial 100% completable regardless of your build (anyone can equip any type of armor in our system). If you choose to fight it alone without looking for Helen's armor at all, yes, it will be quite difficult, but then again after you die you can go and retrieve Helen's armor, put it on, and defeat the rotwurm. It's a lot less exciting than it seems when you know all this, I agree, which is why we don't tell the player this and let them figure that out on their own... ultimately, you have all the tools you need to defeat the creature, regardless of your choice in the conversation. If you threw away the armor or all the lockpicks and then also told Helen off, well... consider that a lesson in making poor decisions, which is an equally valid point of the tutorial, as making poor and self-destructive choices on this server will make your PC not last very long once you're in a real DM event and/or dealing with other PCs. There is a rest camp area right next to her but the problem is the cooldown timer for resting is too long so when you return you most likely have to log out or go idle for a long time. A similar rest node like in the prison if you go through the getting arrested in the intro would be better than mucking up the rest scripts. For the rotwurm, I used Helen's own gear and could get to halfway to its hp using all my health potions. It couldn't do any melee damage but it still outdamaged me with its acid breath and sonic wing attack.
|
|