Post by gazoo on Nov 17, 2016 12:49:44 GMT -5
So, been putting the grind on here, fairly intensively.
As to RP: Pretty similar RP to most PWs imho: You've got your PW politics, player inter-drama, "water-cooler" chat, DM-driven world/city events and DM-driven player evolution.
So, I'll talk mechanics.
Excellent:
I like that it goes towards the old-school Runescape type philosophy. Characters build through skills vs classes and stats. Very nice area designs and appropriate monsters for the setting. Players are very friendly and helpful. Almost too friendly for the RP atmosphere...but I'm not going to suggest it's a bad thing (it's not). So overall, fun PW. It has potential and longevity and I'm sticking around.
I'm fine with the adventure-death penalty. It's only potentially frustrating for certain long areas. And sporadic rest spots do save xp and skill. Nothing saying you can't take a risk and look around a dangerous area after banking and saving (no loss of either skill or money).
___________________________________________
Things I find odd:
Scaling implementation is the biggest shortcoming, though. Remember Elder ScrollsIV-Oblivion? - One of the most unfun aspects of this was the scaling to character level, no matter where you go - starting area or not. A lot of this exists on EA.
Areas such as Pier (0-25), Bandits (0-10), cemetery, etc scale way beyond listed windows. Or perhaps they need tweaks, and I'm not referring to bosses. It's particularly noticeable when a higher-skill pops in and the scaling immediately jumps for triggers (the individual mobs themselves, not the numbers). Many areas top this with more spawns to compensate, as well.
It's assumed you will bee-line to the nearest player merchant and purchase the best possible armor and weapons (not uncommon to other PWs).
Further, some of the EA philosophy assumes that highers will be helping you through areas, so this scaling is designed with this in mind. This has pros and cons. While it's great for RP, there are some fundamental flaws with skill practice in this scenario:
-Skills such as healing (if not with a decent healer and "if" the tank ever gets damaged), stealth (too slow both for use and accumulation in parties), detect, etc have little chance to advance. For example, the lowest member "may" be able to detect the detectable item with lots of extra time, but that means the party is going to have to hang back while you attempt to find something...parties can't be expected to have that kind of time or patience.
-In addition you are very fragile if you don't have the best gear. Nwn2 AI cheats and will select the easiest target in range for it's abilities (it's how it was written - unless EA has custom AI)... So as a "vulnerable" character you've got to hang back depending on the damage risk. Hanging back means you limit the range of skills you can work with.
There are NPC helpers/animals suggested. I'd say they are almost more of a requirement in the current scaling design, particularly if you have not maximized equipment through PC crafters. I don't think this is emphasized enough in the wiki; new players need have this impressed upon them.
Lastly, money in crafting and possibly NPC purchases tends to make certain low level areas popular for quick runs (*cough*-graveyard). I know detect has been cited as a reason for this, but I can honestly say there are far better and faster runs to top up detect skill in the 10+ range. I think it suggests other incentives are at play.
My suggestions would be:
1. Some areas have listed ranges that rarely make sense. Less auto-scaling on mob toughness in lower level areas..potentially less profit in the lower areas to reduce higher-level traffic. Some things could be boosted in value lower level areas. Leather could sell for more, for example.
2. If PW philosophy is to have mixed parties...then some skill advancement mechanics need fixing for this situation. Otherwise it could handicap some valuable skills and influence exactly which skills a player is willing to consider using in a party.
3. Crafting by PCs is good, but crafting components are a bit cheap. I think crafter PCs should be looking to adventuring PCs for crafting components more often, even the cheaper potions and metals. As is, they only look for stuff that can't be found. With retraining, it's pretty easy to swap skills, considering you only need a couple of points investments to be master crafter. (eventually you lose xp, but if you could swap training in stages of character progression....with enough money, you can burn a crafting skill up to a level higher than what you need to wear.) * I think more even more points requirement to specialized crafting and more value to found components would tweak this positively for RP and commitment.
4. I consistently get the feeling popular/profitable lower area mobs are designed for the following typical formula: find +5 armor from PC merchant (or modified EA heavy PC crafted armor in this case), +5 weapon (EA crafted weapon with nice dmg boost), hire NPC or find high PC friendly and go loot -hence the scaling philosophy. Many of these "lower" areas get harder as your skill advances beyond the range...to a point. There are plenty of areas of similar levels that are nowhere near the same difficulty and are better for skill advancement. There's a dichotomy on EA, in terms of areas of similar adventure ranges.
These areas do work very well in a party of similar maximum skill levels, though; I've experienced that. So, I think the issue is with trying to make lower level areas challenging for higher level "helpers" (scaling). Or perhaps the area difficulty rating is completely obsolete.
As to RP: Pretty similar RP to most PWs imho: You've got your PW politics, player inter-drama, "water-cooler" chat, DM-driven world/city events and DM-driven player evolution.
So, I'll talk mechanics.
Excellent:
I like that it goes towards the old-school Runescape type philosophy. Characters build through skills vs classes and stats. Very nice area designs and appropriate monsters for the setting. Players are very friendly and helpful. Almost too friendly for the RP atmosphere...but I'm not going to suggest it's a bad thing (it's not). So overall, fun PW. It has potential and longevity and I'm sticking around.
I'm fine with the adventure-death penalty. It's only potentially frustrating for certain long areas. And sporadic rest spots do save xp and skill. Nothing saying you can't take a risk and look around a dangerous area after banking and saving (no loss of either skill or money).
___________________________________________
Things I find odd:
Scaling implementation is the biggest shortcoming, though. Remember Elder ScrollsIV-Oblivion? - One of the most unfun aspects of this was the scaling to character level, no matter where you go - starting area or not. A lot of this exists on EA.
Areas such as Pier (0-25), Bandits (0-10), cemetery, etc scale way beyond listed windows. Or perhaps they need tweaks, and I'm not referring to bosses. It's particularly noticeable when a higher-skill pops in and the scaling immediately jumps for triggers (the individual mobs themselves, not the numbers). Many areas top this with more spawns to compensate, as well.
It's assumed you will bee-line to the nearest player merchant and purchase the best possible armor and weapons (not uncommon to other PWs).
Further, some of the EA philosophy assumes that highers will be helping you through areas, so this scaling is designed with this in mind. This has pros and cons. While it's great for RP, there are some fundamental flaws with skill practice in this scenario:
-Skills such as healing (if not with a decent healer and "if" the tank ever gets damaged), stealth (too slow both for use and accumulation in parties), detect, etc have little chance to advance. For example, the lowest member "may" be able to detect the detectable item with lots of extra time, but that means the party is going to have to hang back while you attempt to find something...parties can't be expected to have that kind of time or patience.
-In addition you are very fragile if you don't have the best gear. Nwn2 AI cheats and will select the easiest target in range for it's abilities (it's how it was written - unless EA has custom AI)... So as a "vulnerable" character you've got to hang back depending on the damage risk. Hanging back means you limit the range of skills you can work with.
There are NPC helpers/animals suggested. I'd say they are almost more of a requirement in the current scaling design, particularly if you have not maximized equipment through PC crafters. I don't think this is emphasized enough in the wiki; new players need have this impressed upon them.
Lastly, money in crafting and possibly NPC purchases tends to make certain low level areas popular for quick runs (*cough*-graveyard). I know detect has been cited as a reason for this, but I can honestly say there are far better and faster runs to top up detect skill in the 10+ range. I think it suggests other incentives are at play.
My suggestions would be:
1. Some areas have listed ranges that rarely make sense. Less auto-scaling on mob toughness in lower level areas..potentially less profit in the lower areas to reduce higher-level traffic. Some things could be boosted in value lower level areas. Leather could sell for more, for example.
2. If PW philosophy is to have mixed parties...then some skill advancement mechanics need fixing for this situation. Otherwise it could handicap some valuable skills and influence exactly which skills a player is willing to consider using in a party.
3. Crafting by PCs is good, but crafting components are a bit cheap. I think crafter PCs should be looking to adventuring PCs for crafting components more often, even the cheaper potions and metals. As is, they only look for stuff that can't be found. With retraining, it's pretty easy to swap skills, considering you only need a couple of points investments to be master crafter. (eventually you lose xp, but if you could swap training in stages of character progression....with enough money, you can burn a crafting skill up to a level higher than what you need to wear.) * I think more even more points requirement to specialized crafting and more value to found components would tweak this positively for RP and commitment.
4. I consistently get the feeling popular/profitable lower area mobs are designed for the following typical formula: find +5 armor from PC merchant (or modified EA heavy PC crafted armor in this case), +5 weapon (EA crafted weapon with nice dmg boost), hire NPC or find high PC friendly and go loot -hence the scaling philosophy. Many of these "lower" areas get harder as your skill advances beyond the range...to a point. There are plenty of areas of similar levels that are nowhere near the same difficulty and are better for skill advancement. There's a dichotomy on EA, in terms of areas of similar adventure ranges.
These areas do work very well in a party of similar maximum skill levels, though; I've experienced that. So, I think the issue is with trying to make lower level areas challenging for higher level "helpers" (scaling). Or perhaps the area difficulty rating is completely obsolete.
