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Post by sareth675 on Jul 21, 2015 7:16:24 GMT -5
I might be the only person here who devalues the health and stamina potions but.... seriously, those potions do absolutely nothing. I have no stamina issues being a light armor wearer, but I know heavy armor fighters who don't carry them around because they never need to. It's a round use for what? 10-20 stamina? I don't actually know how much stamina they restore since... I can't actually read the stamina bars numerical value on my portrait.
Health potions are the same. You chug one in combat, heal 6 HP. 6?! For 7 - 10 bucks or whatever? Recovery potions heal 20 out of combat. They're nice, they're balanced I'd say. They heal the cumulative damage. That's why they're good.
But what I'd love to see to see these potions get used more...
Health potions get upped in price to about 20 bucks.
Health potions now heal 20 HP instantly in combat. You think people would start using them then? I bet they would!
Stamina potions need to recover about 50 stamina, since it's only used for abilities... and actually, stamina seems a little underused overall I've found. I never, ever had an issue with it. I don't know anyone who does, excepting maybe a crossbow user? And the stamina gain from using up a round in combat needs to be significant or again, it's really kind of sidelined. That's why I think 50 stamina recovery would see stamina potions being used properly.
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Genbor
Gumshoe
"If you die, don't come crying to me about it."
Posts: 81 
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Post by Genbor on Jul 21, 2015 7:32:03 GMT -5
You are not the only one who feels this way. I find that the current potions have absoletuly zero merit to them. A healing potion heals me 6 out of combat, and a recovery potion heals 10 at most.
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Post by sareth675 on Jul 21, 2015 7:40:48 GMT -5
I get healed about 20 HP from recovery potions outside of combat, I feel for their price (about 5 bucks, and given you heal most damage from combat anyway), I think they're pretty okay, but if other people are having different results they feel are too low, then that could be looked into to.
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Post by shrewdcrow on Jul 21, 2015 7:59:42 GMT -5
I use them, get healed 15+ hp and spam them in a fight when things get ruff. The idea is to not try and take on 10+ deaders alone all at once and you'll be fine. We still like to think it's like the normal NWN2 system where we can buff up and be unstoppable gods, not so here and I hope we don't make it like that. Being mortal is a feature here, I'd like to keep it that way.  |
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Post by dathi255 on Jul 21, 2015 8:13:12 GMT -5
Recovery and Nightvision potions are useful, the stamina I don't use as I've opted for a passive heavy ability list as opposed to activated skills, so I won't comment on those.
But unless alchemists can make half decent health potions, I'd never even think about using them... I reckon the 6 HP in a round during a melee is more counter productive than trying to end the melee quicker by hitting said enemies.
Health potions either need to be upped in the shops (which I think is unnecessary, as alchemists will want to take over the NPCs job in that)
Or alchemy needs to get added in, fast.
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Post by sareth675 on Jul 21, 2015 8:15:56 GMT -5
Shrewdcrow, I don't take the deaders alone, never do, I've never had to use heal potions either, but I never want to because as they are now they're rubbish. How are they healing you for 15+ because I've never had quite so much success.
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Post by Fuzz on Jul 21, 2015 8:52:54 GMT -5
Back in the day, FROM Software made a game called Demon's Souls in which you ate grasses to heal yourself. It was a difficult game, but once you got the hang of it and were further along, it was super easy to have 100+ healing items on you, and a lot of the game could just be brute forced via spamming healing. The company realized this sort of broke what they were tying to achieve with the game, so they made another game called Dark Souls where you only had a set number of flasks, and over time as you unlocked the world you could get more and better flasks, but you always had a finite number. This was a little better but they always refreshed and ended up being free healing, plus you could end up with a LOT of them. Then came Dark Souls 2, where there were FAR fewer flasks, and you couldn't actually upgrade them. They were still freely refreshed, but it was a little bit more realistic and challenging for players.
Then they made a steampunk game called Bloodborne, and in that they went BACK to the idea of having to buy/farm up healing items so you had a finite supply, but they ALSO put a carry limit on them such that you were never carrying 20x your health bar in healing items to use as a parachute if things went badly. They also programmed their AI to specifically become aggressive when you used the healing items in combat, because they wanted the combat to be more deadly and visceral, but between fights you could recuperate.
This tangent has a point. We've all played on NWN2 servers where PCs are walking around with stacks of full heals, or rods of Cure Serious Wounds, or whatever. It trivializes a lot of the challenge, and specifically in DM events it's annoying because you know what, sometimes there should be an actual threat of losing in a DM event, and NPCs with their crappy AI already have a huge disadvantage vs players, this just adds to that. You've all felt this before when you played on some server and beat a tough opponent to almost dead and then suddenly they popped a heal potion and are doing fine. It's a bullshit mechanic, frankly, and one we're trying to avoid.
Personally, I've always been a fan of regenerative health stuff with little to no instant healing, or if there is instant healing, it's not particularly good and is basically only for emergencies. Our numbers might be a little off, but I think that's what PE is going for, as well. We'll look at them and I also believe that you guys are using the baseline potions, whereas part of PE's design is to have alchemy skill actually improve your potion quality as you get better, so a Master Alchemist can make better potions. In genera; the server policy is that stuff that high level crafters can make will generally exceed what you will be abl to find or bu in stores... if it didn't there'd be no point in crafting.
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Post by sareth675 on Jul 21, 2015 9:03:58 GMT -5
Well in that case, I guess the NPC vendor is going to have a crate of healing potions around no one will ever buy ^^ So long as alchemy ends up making these sorts of potions better, then they probably will start seeing some use later on once alchemy becomes a bit more widespread.
But really, until gold sinks go in, what's to stop an alchemist making potions of the potency I've suggested and doing exactly what you don't want? Will there be a limit on number of potions consumed once combat has begun?
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Post by drunkensolamnic on Jul 21, 2015 9:14:03 GMT -5
Sareth to address your bit about stamina potions. You're right in one thing... they're not worth the time/vulnerability to use in combat. I actually run my stamina bar out a lot since I took Timed Strikes and Power Attack, one use of each and then I'm waiting for the bar to refill. Now if the potion let me leave fight, refill the stamina bar, and go back in to use both abilities again? Sure, I'd use them. But right now its more helpful to my allies if I keep swinging rather than try to boost my stamina with potions so I can do slightly more damage.
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Genbor
Gumshoe
"If you die, don't come crying to me about it."
Posts: 81
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Post by Genbor on Jul 21, 2015 9:51:21 GMT -5
I love all of the FROM Software games, (Dark Souls 2 a bit less, but still love it), and while you have a point Fuzz, I still feel healing/recovery could be a bit more useful. Stamina I never use because stamina regeneration is good enough, and the stamina I get back from the potion is incredibly negligient, it's really more efficient to wait +1 second than to waste money on it. The Nighvision potion is a godsend, and I feel it's just right, making me feel like I'm drinking Cat in Witcher 2.
I don't really care for fullheals and Cure Serious Wounds, as you've pointed out, it takes away much of the challenge, but I'd at least like some sort of way to survive the cumulative damage when I'm in the middle of a dungeon. Maybe if I had more money and could carry around x20 my healthbar in these potions that heal 6-15, then I'd be fine with it, but that's just what you said you wouldn't want, and the problem is, as of right now it's incredibly hard for new players (at least for me it is) to gain any money. The only place I can get loot is from the graveyard Deaders dungeon, but that is always crowded because that's the only money making place. So I am always stuck with no cash to buy anything, even though I'd really want to focus on crafting, I can't because crafting ingredients and the creating of it costs much more than what I can sell it for in the shop, and my meager Blacksmithing (5) is not good enough to have some PC buy it for a reasonable price.
I'd be fine if it boosts the passive regeneration or something, but at least I feel the 6 I get from out of combat is really weak.
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Post by Sobriquet on Jul 21, 2015 12:26:35 GMT -5
I'm pretty fine with potions as they are. I step out of combat and drink them while my teammates tank whenever I'm extremely low. I'd hate to see them become an effective tool for soloing or worse yet, something you can chug down in PvP to stay alive.
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Genbor
Gumshoe
"If you die, don't come crying to me about it."
Posts: 81
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Post by Genbor on Jul 21, 2015 12:35:36 GMT -5
I definitely wouldn't want to see it as a PvP drink of wonders, but I think making it a bit more effective while soloing would help tremendously. Sure having a party is best, but when there's nobody to tank for you, you can't just step back and drink. Sometimes there aren't enough people online when I play, and there are lots of times I just want to solo a bit. To be honest the most I am interested in is not grinding dungeons for cash, but to level up my crafting skills, which I usually enjoy more than fighting, but I just can't do that when I don't have cash, and anything I spend on potions, I don't spend on the one thing I would love to spend it on: crafting.
You can't just brush it off as simply as it is being brushed off, in my opinion. I always found it interesting that on RP servers you can't really RP a non-combatant. Well you can, but then you are forced to break it off in OoC grinding to be able to progress in your RP personality.
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Post by Sobriquet on Jul 21, 2015 12:45:11 GMT -5
Maybe a somewhat slow regeneration potion, then? 10-20 damage recovery over 5-10 rounds? Could pop it before engaging with mobs and it'd be more effective for solo play.
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Post by thelittlestwalnut on Jul 21, 2015 12:52:46 GMT -5
^ I like the idea of healing potions basically being a Lesser Vigor / Vigor effect, too. As they are, even when used in "emergencies," it never fails that I get hit for more damage than I heal the moment I drink it.
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Post by Bi0sh0cked on Jul 21, 2015 13:03:38 GMT -5
Potions heal more the higher level the potion, when alchemy comes out, potions will become another commodity with a use and a value. The potions that heal for 6 are low level potions from that guy in the cross. The ones that heal for 15+ are from the elf dude, and are a much higher level. Potions are fine as is, and will see more use once the Alchemy stuff is in place. Least that's my guess, I'd love to be buying potions from a player rather than an npc.
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