demise
Just Wandered In
Posts: 6 
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Post by demise on Jun 12, 2017 14:31:31 GMT -5
Given how rare XP gain is in the server and how slow skills level meaning you often at low levels split abilities around until you get high enough to take abilities in your main skill trees, can the retrain cost after 10 be changed from 250 xp to simply higher gold cost?
This cost is higher than passing a boss tier and you can never ever recoup an xp loss.
((Also highly suggest this limit and it's amount of time be highlighted in red in the retrain window as I didn't even notice there was a retrain limited until it gut punched me with an XP cost))
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Post by Lugwy on Jun 12, 2017 14:34:40 GMT -5
I'd also suggest a warning/confirmation UI when someone is trying to retrain an ability without a "free" retrain use left.
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Post by Psionic-Entity on Jun 12, 2017 15:42:14 GMT -5
I'll do the red text, don't want to mess around with pop up windows on top of pop up windows in the UI.
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Post by drunkensolamnic on Jun 12, 2017 22:44:20 GMT -5
While I sort of understand limiting these, why have the xp cost at all? WHy not just make it cost drastically more after the cheap ones rather than a limited resource? I've managed to burn easily 5 retrains before just due to trees being shifted and had to use 9 when I came back from my break due to the changes made while I was gone.
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Post by ronan on Jun 23, 2017 10:32:35 GMT -5
I would second, or third or w/e I am, changing to an exponential increase in monetary cost when going over the retrain limit instead of XP. I know that a newer player missed the explanation dialogue and accidentally retrained some XP away, and simply doing away with a permanent punishment for an easy overlook like that would prevent future repeats. Make it an incredibly large cost increase for going over the limit to balance the change, if necessary. Any amount of monetary cost is better than even the slightest amount of XP. -edit- I just realized how old a thread this was, sorry. Sorting through the ones marked new on my app and missed the date.  |
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Post by Kitsunenotsume on Jun 23, 2017 13:39:46 GMT -5
[. . .] Any amount of monetary cost is better than even the slightest amount of XP. [. . .] Which is why an XP cost exists. Engines already suffers from inflation with higher levels, and while the argument can and has nbeen made that the limit of retrains needs to be made more clear, removing that limit would result in practices we saw back in Beta, where people could shell out a thousand bucks or more and maintain separate RP and Dungeoneering load-outs of abilities and switch between them regularly. |
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Post by electrohydra on Jun 24, 2017 16:36:58 GMT -5
I don't know anyone who would sacrifice a permanent resource (xp) for a retrain. Honestly it's probably better to flat out not allow retrains when they would cost xp, since the only time people would do it is by accident.
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Post by drunkensolamnic on Jul 1, 2017 9:00:13 GMT -5
I was thinking about this as I check each day to see if I have a new retrain yet. I considered that I used most of my 100 dollar ones on fixing my feat lines after I came back to find heavy-armor lines adjusted. Then one on untraining a bugged ability that was crippling (The stam/armor one) until it was fixed. And having talked with some others in the same boat I am, I would suggest that maybe these should come 2 at a time, rather than one. Those of us who were on the lead edge, and invested heavily into heavy-armor, and especially those in one-handed have a sizable retrain deficit after all the changes that were made post-beta.
Might be a good compromise between basically unlimited ones and the current situation where for example Nippon is still trying to spec into his character's new role even after months of working on it, or my own decision where I'm trying to get rid of a feat line based on results of what was a unknown bug at the time.
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Post by nippon on Jul 12, 2017 23:50:27 GMT -5
Block and shield changes resulted in a line of abilities I'd never wanted. To switch just between the changed shield skills took 6 retrains (with 3 more to go) Now I'm stuck with none, waiting month to month to slowly fix my character.
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Post by Psionic-Entity on Jul 13, 2017 12:03:05 GMT -5
Eight months is a little past the statute of limitations but when asked we've always done retrains for people wanting to move out of abilities after major changes to them. Same story with bugs, anyone playing here should feel comfortable asking for a free retrain after jumping out of a bugged ability and posting a report about it. Those issues are temporary and will almost certainly become less and less common over time, so I think that merits temporary solutions like the ones I've provided instead of a permanent solution like the suggestion to increase retraining overall.
Overall I think a better response to having abilities you aren't feeling good about (either after taking them or a balance change) is to sit on them for a bit, provide feedback, and make swap out if it still doesn't work, either by using retrains or for free if it's something that just got a big change. Being able to quietly dump entire skills is good in the short term because it guarantees you a build you're happy with but also actively impedes my own goal as a developer, which is to make sure all 23 skills and 500 abilities are viable and reasonably well-balanced.
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Post by nippon on Jul 13, 2017 14:11:17 GMT -5
I don't quite recall anyone getting free retrains after the massive changes to Heavy armor/Block/1h shield abilities. It's not like I got to pick what I'd do with my build after the changes either - as it was just three ranks in whatever skill you had before. Even then I was still forced to 'sit on them for a bit' to contemplate how +15% stam regen/ -15% culm damage taken wasn't nearly as good as the + min + max armor skill I'd chosen before, and how I'd have to reinvest the entire tree to get the new benefits of shield use. (( % change to dodge ranged attacks and explosive immunity? Why would you take anything else. ))
I've gritted my teeth over it, and I'm 'only three months' away from being able to be comfortable with my character again. I'd suggest in the future that if an ability line gets changed the PC simply gets all their abilities invested in that skill returned to reconfigure however they desire, rather than be stuck with some balanced out new thing.
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Post by Psionic-Entity on Jul 13, 2017 14:20:02 GMT -5
Didn't ask and kept the feedback to yourself until eight months later. If you're still working on it I could take a look but you've got a case of exactly what I hoped people wouldn't do going on.
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