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Post by Kitsunenotsume on Aug 20, 2017 19:21:29 GMT -5
I would like to suggest that loot nodes in a dungeon should reset if they have been looted, but the loot is confiscated due to a death-rule.
This is probably easier to implement as tracking when the individual enters the relevant death-rule area, and logging which nodes they receive loot from before the death-rule kicks them.
As it stands, after wiping in an almost-completed dungeon, there is no material incentive to returning to the dungeon, because the loot nodes that were accessed the first time through will have been exhausted, meaning that the re-attempt at the dungeon carries negligible wealth return.
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Post by Kitsunenotsume on Aug 21, 2017 15:24:03 GMT -5
I would note that any such reset mechanic needs to take into account four corner cases:
1) Consumed bestriary entries and schematics. These are not reduced on death.
2) schematic progress from deconstructing in-dungeon, similar to 1.
3) orange testing areas presumably should not reset if
Their testing leeway is invoked.
4) dropped or handed off gear to prevent farming of loot nodes. If the reset were per player, one pc could volenteer to run through a dungeon, hand off loot, and die to reset nodes to repeat; bypassing the normal replenishment cycle.
Could be adressed by calculating the value of the confiscated loot and subtracting that from the dungeon loot value prior to resetting the nodes.
If the resets are per-party, i see wonky things happening if someone runs from a fight, thereby screwing over everyone left behind; or if the first person kicked-out by the death-rule heads back in to the dungeon to salvage the situation, to the same effect of screwing everyone out of a loot reset.
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Post by gazoo on Aug 21, 2017 16:01:57 GMT -5
Loot and xp is saved at each rest point.
Dungeon loot nodes reset in a random fashion after a certain time. If you hit up nodes that have not been detected and picked, the new loot nodes are available.
So...is this really needed? There is some risk of wipe between rest points, but strategies can be formed around the rest points. More rest points can be added or timers can be reduced.
Some of the new and less tested dungeons may need tweaks with time, but that's all part of creating and testing something new and adventurous.
(Imho, in many ways EoA has less risk than some other PWs for XP...but its philosophy is currently about right for the PW. And it follows the K.I.S.S. principle)
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Post by Kitsunenotsume on Aug 21, 2017 16:18:32 GMT -5
Wiping in a dungeon will remove all loot up to the last save point, yes. It will also remove the potential for all loot up to the point completed.
This thread is regarding not the implications of the wipe for the previous run, but the fact that any future runs that day have zero financial return, meaning that not only is the time spent lost but it also wastes the time until those loot-nodes are replenished. The result heavily disincentivises re-attempting a dungeon you just wiped in and given the limited number of zones in a given range decreases the likyhood that players remain online after a wipe.
While I understand you follow a strategy of looting after you clear a dungeon to secure your investment, it is often neither practical nor effecient for the rest of us who preffer to collect as we go and only walk through a dungeon once at a slower pace than can often result in spawns behind us.
I do not believe that more frequent rest points is the solution, because increasing their number and decreasing the rest timer fundementally changes dungeon balance. The ability to fully heal and to divide endurance runs into smaller segments runs counter to the atmosphere and style of many dungeons and raids as I have experienced them ingame.
In short, I do feel it is needed, as this has been a point that has resurfaced multiple times since beta started over two years ago.
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Post by Psionic-Entity on Aug 30, 2017 20:24:36 GMT -5
I could do this but the cost would need to be that bestiaries and schematics wouldn't be usable in dungeons anymore. I think deconstruction is alright since that XP should get docked on a party wipe anyways, but I'll want to confirm that it's working first.
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Post by Kitsunenotsume on Aug 30, 2017 21:52:58 GMT -5
The deconstruction XP removal is working just like all other XP gained in the dungeon, in my experience.
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Post by gazoo on Aug 31, 2017 14:38:48 GMT -5
A couple of things that come to mind with this approach:
-dealing with failed locks/traps. Take the broken item and if enough bad luck, die and redo?
-similar to the above: a bad luck loot run? Personally I get quite disappointed with money and consumables for loot - both are inferior to even one saleable item ($ or potential use). Die and retry?
(I say die a lot, but xp loss is not really an issue here if taking a conservative approach; the xp penalties aren't that severe.)
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Post by Lugwy on Aug 31, 2017 19:28:17 GMT -5
If you get far enough to seriously consider dying in order to reset loot drops and potentially get better loot, you're likely fully capable of exiting the dungeon and cutting your losses. Since bad loot is often better than no loot, and dying means you reset your progress and take a few steps backwards on top, since that's time and consumables spent, and also the deduction in money that you have to begin with. Consumables and money can be recouped; lost time not so much. (Though it probably doesn't matter if you poopsock.)
Dying/Wiping could have the effect of resetting everything--mob spawns, loot placement/frequency, etc. like entering the dungeon from scratch. (Perhaps with a stacking reduction in loot level per chest previously looted.) So someone finding a good placement of loot isn't guaranteed to have it remain that way in trying to corpse camp. Sure, this also means that bad loot placement means dying to reset the dungeon can result in better loot placement, but IMO getting to that point and expecting countermeasures against it is putting too much thought into trying to game the system.
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