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Post by Psionic-Entity on Oct 2, 2016 21:18:51 GMT -5
The pets said 15 AC and had 25 AC.
I don't mind that nobody mentioned how insanely necessary Triage has been. What I do know that almost everyone had it, most people who had it spent most of their stamina on it, and also that it was part of the common wisdom imparted on new players by the vets that you had to take triage and level it with self heals. Not a bug or anything but that should hopefully feel wrong to most people.
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Post by electrohydra on Oct 2, 2016 21:19:39 GMT -5
I didn't even know you could see pet stats by examining the item until you mentioned it. I never reported the pet AC because it actually seemed balanced that way. Sure, at low level there wasn't really a reason to not have a dog, but to have your pet scale requires TONS of investment.
Because yes, I do report things that seem overpowered, even when it's things I use. By the way, Pump Shotgun still hasn't been nerfed.
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Post by eba on Oct 2, 2016 21:27:09 GMT -5
The pets said 15 AC and had 25 AC. I don't mind that nobody mentioned how insanely necessary Triage has been. What I do know that almost everyone had it, most people who had it spent most of their stamina on it, and also that it was part of the common wisdom imparted on new players by the vets that you had to take triage and level it with self heals. Not a bug or anything but that should hopefully feel wrong to most people. How does this get changed? Unless I misunderstand the nerfs, healer chars are still gonna be humping the tank smashing heal And without it, dungeons just aren't finishable as you level higher
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Post by Psionic-Entity on Oct 2, 2016 21:37:51 GMT -5
How does this get changed? Unless I misunderstand the nerfs, healer chars are still gonna be humping the tank smashing heal Not entirely sure. If people need healing that bad overall then potion buffs might be in order. If it's really just an issue with certain dungeons then those can be made easier. I don't mind if people who splash Triage only heal the tank, it's reasonably risky to take those AOOs and they have other stuff to do, but if it ends up being really lame to be a full healer then I'll need to look at how well Triage is balanced against other healing options. Maybe consider making potion clouds have a reduced effect on enemies so that people can use them in more places.
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Post by Psionic-Entity on Oct 2, 2016 21:49:00 GMT -5
I've been here near two weeks. It was only in, I think the last three days? That I've really started experimenting with pets. I also reported their bugs everytime I noticed them. People in my position shouldn't be punished. Absolutely. It's not about punishment, it's about the fact that I have no idea what a fair set of stats for pets is. Starting with AC as high as a level 100 light armor PC isn't an option here.
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Zoomshot
Gumshoe
A Shields-man stands before all, a boundary of protection and security.
Posts: 77
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Post by Zoomshot on Oct 2, 2016 21:56:28 GMT -5
That's fine. Earlier I mentioned a combination would be nice. I don't know how to make it balanced either. I just have thoughts on how it might be. The dog has 10 armors, to be honest it feels like he has no armor. The 15 ac gets him killed fast. iN a place like Wyler? That is fine. I would never expect a Dober to hold up there. He is only a skill 10 pet. Perhaps try giving him more armor. Like 15-20 and let EH and myself report how it goes? I mean leaving him how is right now doesn't make him useless. He can live a round to five...ish. if you're lucky in grave yard. Another way to make them more balanced is keep them as is, but give them mods? Dog armor/ect. Or make the Command Defense more significant. +5 armor or ect for 5 rounds, maybe 2 regen instead of two. Then him being hit every hit is fine. ATM it just feels like the Dober needs something to make him actually skill 10 effective. Just some ideas there to play around with.
At 25 ac, and 10 armor. He was able to tie with a Skill lvl 15 rotter. Half the time the rotter won. That's why commented it felt it was "more balanced." Anything beyond that kicked his butt.
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Post by electrohydra on Oct 2, 2016 22:14:46 GMT -5
Talking about it on Discord, something that seems a good way to start is to make pets not take Cumulative damage, so they always return to full HP after a fight. If Pets are supposed to act like a weapon type, then it makes sense : No other weapon type becomes less and less effective as you advance in the dungeon.
Something else, which might be a little more tricky, but possibly easier to balance, is to have pets work a little like Skarl in League of Legends. Make the pets have even less HP then they currently do. However, pets never truly die if their owner is alive. If they get reduced to 0 HP, they "run away" (Vanish). A few rounds latter, they return with full HP. That way killing a pet works more like "disarming" the pet's owner for a few rounds. (Also, mob AI usually attacks injured targets before full health ones. So when your pet comes back, it's unlikely to grab aggro unless you have the command for it, which makes it less infini-tanking)
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Post by modular on Oct 3, 2016 8:29:40 GMT -5
So, I want to offe my two cents.
Everyone likes being good at other things, but Doc is, primarily, a medic. I keep, however, options that augment mybrole, that are sometimes the correct choice in lieu of healing. Cryo throwing axes for elemental shuriken mobs. Firearms for DPS when healing is covered by a clod or unneeded. Concussions for groups.
But when it comes to healing, I've been generally content. The only reason, previously, I shied from doing it was because it gave literal no advancement.
Now that its been fixed, I will be making choices based not on "how useless is this trip to me".
As for the change, it makes literal no difference to me. I wasn't getting XP from healing myself, and for me, potions generally work or don't and triage made no difference.
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Post by eba on Oct 3, 2016 16:58:19 GMT -5
I think the balance would force MORE medics for groups, despite Khannon planning to retrain out of it, and I think groups are going to wipe more without two or three medic based chars
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Post by drunkensolamnic on Oct 3, 2016 17:05:03 GMT -5
I will say that the only real impact this is having past making it harder for me to keep myself alive in group fights, is me determining its not worth it for me to really go past triage 2 becuase of the reduced secondary benefits. I'd be completely soothed if the tox/bleed removal of the T3+ abilities were allowed to function fully. Or if there was a scaling up on the return for self healing to say 75% at T5.
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Post by Fuzz on Oct 3, 2016 17:08:36 GMT -5
I will say that the only real impact this is having past making it harder for me to keep myself alive in group fights, is me determining its not worth it for me to really go past triage 2 becuase of the reduced secondary benefits. I'd be completely soothed if the tox/bleed removal of the T3+ abilities were allowed to function fully. Or if there was a scaling up on the return for self healing to say 75% at T5. Emergency Care is pretty great, I don't get this complaint.
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Post by kaincallavis on Oct 3, 2016 17:12:07 GMT -5
I wouldn't mind if the self heal took half the stam since it gives half the benefit. Likewise, full secondary effects.
As it stands, potions are not enough, and even if they were - utilizing buffs and trying to heal even with a few levels in tox is impractical for melee fighters. Triage provided the ability to dip out, heal back up some and get back in... now I am forced to dip out... and stand behind the tank like a medic, at best, rejoining with ranged weapons which makes it impractical to take for melee characters / non-tanks now.
We even tried to do the whole "you heal me, I'll heal you" thing but it ends up being a mess and eventually becoming a cycle where you're both jerking each other off to stay alive or one person plays the medic anyway.
---
The two recent nerf updates have left at least one player with a lack of motivation to come play.
DM's will say they don't care, but it is a trend that could start a decline.
Several players have had some steam pulled out of their sails.
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Post by eba on Oct 3, 2016 17:28:51 GMT -5
Maybe it's tied into Tanks being 100000000 percent required, but unable to do much damage while tanking. You don't do much with ripostes, and one handed don't dps wildly anyways. So a tnak tanking is standing there in a door, with block on, putting maybe 5 or ten damage on a mob every 3 rounds, while other players actually... well... play.
Also without choke points or MULTIPLE tanks, lightly armored pcs puff against at level content super fast, making the tank the nucleus of any party, but one that doesn't seem fun to play.
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Post by Theorem of Neutrality on Oct 3, 2016 18:02:22 GMT -5
I wouldn't mind if the self heal took half the stam since it gives half the benefit. Likewise, full secondary effects. As it stands, potions are not enough, and even if they were - utilizing buffs and trying to heal even with a few levels in tox is impractical for melee fighters. Triage provided the ability to dip out, heal back up some and get back in... now I am forced to dip out... and stand behind the tank like a medic, at best, rejoining with ranged weapons which makes it impractical to take for melee characters / non-tanks now. We even tried to do the whole "you heal me, I'll heal you" thing but it ends up being a mess and eventually becoming a cycle where you're both jerking each other off to stay alive or one person plays the medic anyway. Why is it negative that an ability will not work in every single tactical output? Melee-focused characters shouldn't be needing to dip into Tox in the first place. This isn't saying that they shouldn't be able to if that's the character concept - but in most cases, that simply is not the case. Triage is not the cause for a lot of these issues - it's more about people dipping into a lot of things to better enable fast grinding/farming and being denied that.
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Post by eba on Oct 3, 2016 18:34:13 GMT -5
I wouldn't mind if the self heal took half the stam since it gives half the benefit. Likewise, full secondary effects. As it stands, potions are not enough, and even if they were - utilizing buffs and trying to heal even with a few levels in tox is impractical for melee fighters. Triage provided the ability to dip out, heal back up some and get back in... now I am forced to dip out... and stand behind the tank like a medic, at best, rejoining with ranged weapons which makes it impractical to take for melee characters / non-tanks now. We even tried to do the whole "you heal me, I'll heal you" thing but it ends up being a mess and eventually becoming a cycle where you're both jerking each other off to stay alive or one person plays the medic anyway. Why is it negative that an ability will not work in every single tactical output? Melee-focused characters shouldn't be needing to dip into Tox in the first place. This isn't saying that they shouldn't be able to if that's the character concept - but in most cases, that simply is not the case. Triage is not the cause for a lot of these issues - it's more about people dipping into a lot of things to better enable fast grinding/farming and being denied that. I think the problem is that the place some people have to grind, Wyler, is untenable. People aren't grinding stuff beyond them, they're grinding their only at level option
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