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Post by thehitman on Nov 8, 2016 12:42:38 GMT -5
Please vote fairly now, no voter fraud!
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Post by Kitsunenotsume on Nov 8, 2016 13:34:23 GMT -5
My comment on the matter: It seems fine to me, perhaps a bit fast past the rank 20 mark. As a disclaimer, most of my XP comes from non-combat sources, and I don't grind.
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Post by whyemmdee on Nov 8, 2016 13:43:09 GMT -5
1 to 100 should take about 6 months average. higher level players are at the halfway mark
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Post by whyemmdee on Nov 8, 2016 13:43:49 GMT -5
1 to 100 should take about 6 months average. higher level players are at the halfway mark. so more or less right on schedule
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Post by electrohydra on Nov 8, 2016 13:49:01 GMT -5
6 months isn't really a usable time on it's own. 6 months with how many hours of grind per week?
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Post by Kitsunenotsume on Nov 8, 2016 13:53:00 GMT -5
I get 4 dungeons a week, average, of which at most two are above or equal to my primary skills. Pretty sure that some people get that many or more per day, so it seems a fair inquiry.
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Post by gorirah on Nov 8, 2016 15:17:27 GMT -5
I'm finding the pace comfortable. It's only the equality of potential that has raised any concern.
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Post by Rhicora on Nov 9, 2016 1:41:52 GMT -5
It is mostly okay. Here are some things I view as problems:
- RP XP does not contribute enough XP gain. Roleplay always means sacrificing XP (opportunity cost of not grinding). This has led to a very grind-heavy culture. - Dungeons are slightly too long. If everyone on the server is committed to the same dungeon, it makes sense to log off, because neither RP nor grinding is available. - Linear level scaling means early joiners level at the same pace as late joiners, so late joiners / alts cannot hope to reasonably catch up in capability until L100. - Vast level gaps created by above encourage one-sided aggression. One does not need to rely on tactics and allies if opposing a lower-level PC.
I think this might lead to frustration and exit, among new arrivals to the server and those who prefer spending most of their time in RP.
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Post by drunkensolamnic on Nov 9, 2016 3:15:09 GMT -5
-There is plenty of RP going on outside of town and on those dungeon dives. -Most dungeons take an hour or so until you hit wyler, then they tend to take two hours. -The leveling isn't linear, people catch up to the lead group rapidly. This is by virtue of the waves behind the lead being able to avoid item-level crimping, enjoying assistance from more established PCs, and most importantly gaining the benefit of all the rebalancing areas receive by the time the 2nd wave gets to them. -Time-In results in further progression in most things; that said no one in the lead group is overly belligerent. It is not the worst thing in the world to characters to have to consider who they might piss off before they take an action. Even people in the lead group think about repercussions before taking actions. - The Difference between a PC with level 30 skills and level 50 skills is actually rather small. Intelligent play by a small group of new PCs could very very easily overwhelm the most developed characters.
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Post by Rhicora on Nov 9, 2016 4:08:11 GMT -5
-There is plenty of RP going on outside of town and on those dungeon dives. I agree, and I believe this aggravates the problem, since bonus XP can even be gained in dungeons. It comes at the direct expense of in-town / non dungeon related RP, which is not anywhere near as rewarding from an XP perspective since it is not paired with a grinding run. There is a strong incentive to avoid RP in town and go straight to dungeons. The result is a pretty grind-heavy culture. -Most dungeons take an hour or so until you hit wyler, then they tend to take two hours. This is already a lot of time without an exit opportunity. It can be 4-6 hours in certain dungeons. If everyone is busy in one when you arrive, there's no reason not to log out. -The leveling isn't linear, people catch up to the lead group rapidly. This is by virtue of the waves behind the lead being able to avoid item-level crimping, enjoying assistance from more established PCs, and most importantly gaining the benefit of all the rebalancing areas receive by the time the 2nd wave gets to them. Despite all of this, I don't think late-joining characters are catching up effectively at all. Even Sparky has stated that his character is ineffective on typical dungeon runs with the lead group, and he's avoiding them for that reason. Everyone advances at roughly the same pace, so new folk will never fall in step with those who came before them, no matter how much an old-school character tanks for them. Those who joined after Carter etc. are in an even worse position. It comes down to this: a character at Two-Handed 10 can expect to get to 11 at the same rate as a character with Two-Handed 50 can expect to get to 51. That's what I mean by linear progression. -Time-In results in further progression in most things; that said no one in the lead group is overly belligerent. It is not the worst thing in the world to characters to have to consider who they might piss off before they take an action. Even people in the lead group think about repercussions before taking actions. - The Difference between a PC with level 30 skills and level 50 skills is actually rather small. Intelligent play by a small group of new PCs could very very easily overwhelm the most developed characters. Players will always consider who their characters might offend. But if the one they might offend is known to be of a much lower level, and cannot be expected to pose a challenge, they will think far less about it. There's even a metagaming component to this, since everyone knows days played roughly equates to character level. I am strongly of the opinion that equality of level / capability is a good thing, since a "certain victory" for either side requires RP solutions, clever tactics, or the use of allies - and even then, it might feel like an exciting tossup. While EoA is closer to this ideal than many other servers, I don't think we're there just yet. A character with level 50 in a combat skill and an armor will soundly defeat a character with level 30 in those skills. And in a few months, given the same amount of grinding, they will turn into a L70 and an L50, and the outcome will be the same. Many of us play very reasonable and "non-belligerent" characters, but I do not want the moods of PCs to be the only thing we're relying on to avoid this situation, particularly as factional tensions heat up.
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Post by Kitsunenotsume on Nov 9, 2016 4:22:50 GMT -5
I do feel that a comment is warranted:
BXP from RP contributes rather heavily to XP gain. People who have BXP to spare and those who are constantly running on empty have rather noticeable rates of return. A sufficiently large pool of BXP either halves the effort requires to get a set amount of XP, or doubles the amount you get for the same effort, neither of which are seen if you don't have any. As one of those people who hops online and gets called into a dungeon crawl that is just starting/started by virtue of my timezone, I definitely feel the effect of not having that opportunity to get RP in to double the effective return of one of my few dungeons for the week.
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Post by drunkensolamnic on Nov 9, 2016 9:46:29 GMT -5
Rhicora,
A level 50 character is not guaranteed to win in a 1v1 vs a level 30, it is likely; but not guaranteed. As Modular says, everyone on the server is 1 critical hit away from being a level 3 chump.
However the progression is NOT linear. It takes up to a week for me to progress a level in a combat skill at 50+; I could roll a new character tomorrow and have my combat skills at 10 each by the end of the day. 20 each withing 2 days. I know this because these are the rates we progressed out coming out of Launch. Within a week people were at level 25 skills; or 50% of current levels. Catching up is not only possible but it is feasible. Most dungeons do not progress the skills of lead-group PCs, the ones that do are highly dangerous and end up in failure. By participating in less than max-level dungeons with teh lead group many PCs have progressed rapidly.
Scarne for example started a month after the rest of us and is now a mainstay. Azir likewise started weeks late and became a mainstay. Sparky's PC struggles to contribute in dungeons that even on-level people struggle to contribute, but he likewise is steadily catching up and closing gaps. EBA's character is a another good example where she had fallen 10-15 levels behind the lead group and is now only 5 levels shy on their primary skills.
Even the very nature of the boss tier system works to catch lower levels up; always spawning the lowest common denominator. Anyone who signs in, invests into their character's gear, and actually utilizes their combat skills will be getting better returns that the lead group. This is if you are 1.) RPing and 2.) also playing the Dungeon end of Dungeons and Dragons. If a character never leaves the bar, they may have awesome noncombat skills; but drinking, tinkering, and merchanting will never make them a warrior.
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Post by eba on Nov 9, 2016 12:33:07 GMT -5
1 to 100 should take about 6 months average. higher level players are at the halfway mark 50 isn't the halfway point of xp needed to grind, skill levels aren't linear.
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Post by eba on Nov 9, 2016 12:40:41 GMT -5
Rhicora, A level 50 character is not guaranteed to win in a 1v1 vs a level 30, it is likely; but not guaranteed. As Modular says, everyone on the server is 1 critical hit away from being a level 3 chump. However the progression is NOT linear. It takes up to a week for me to progress a level in a combat skill at 50+; I could roll a new character tomorrow and have my combat skills at 10 each by the end of the day. 20 each withing 2 days. I know this because these are the rates we progressed out coming out of Launch. Within a week people were at level 25 skills; or 50% of current levels. Catching up is not only possible but it is feasible. Most dungeons do not progress the skills of lead-group PCs, the ones that do are highly dangerous and end up in failure. By participating in less than max-level dungeons with teh lead group many PCs have progressed rapidly. Scarne for example started a month after the rest of us and is now a mainstay. Azir likewise started weeks late and became a mainstay. Sparky's PC struggles to contribute in dungeons that even on-level people struggle to contribute, but he likewise is steadily catching up and closing gaps. EBA's character is a another good example where she had fallen 10-15 levels behind the lead group and is now only 5 levels shy on their primary skills. Even the very nature of the boss tier system works to catch lower levels up; always spawning the lowest common denominator. Anyone who signs in, invests into their character's gear, and actually utilizes their combat skills will be getting better returns that the lead group. This is if you are 1.) RPing and 2.) also playing the Dungeon end of Dungeons and Dragons. If a character never leaves the bar, they may have awesome noncombat skills; but drinking, tinkering, and merchanting will never make them a warrior. my skill gap is, Marksman 50, demo 43, Light armor 30. Those are my highest skills. You have something like every combat skill in the 40s minimum now? On an xp basis, you are WAY beyond me.
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Post by gazoo on Nov 9, 2016 13:39:18 GMT -5
Just a newbie question: is this using a higher-lvl party help/crafting, with a similar level party, or solo? I've noticed that there are many various ways to expedite xp and skills.
Also, my experience of RP on various PWs: It can vary from aggro conflict to soap-opera drama - I'm assuming it's similar here as it's human nature to RP your preferred thing and the majority really depends on which you like. (I tend to like to detox from RL with NWN2 stuff, so the drama side is less interesting to me...that doesn't mean I don't do it, it's just not my go-to thing.) Tricky to please everyone.
I can't comment on the leveling pace. I'm interpreting that some of the voiced concern is that parties often have a pretty wide disparity of skill levels - which is hard to avoid due to the limited player base/player hours?
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