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Post by gazoo on Jan 20, 2017 9:36:58 GMT -5
In looking at the combat log, it seems I am seeing the resist electrical potion transfer elemental damage to toxicity...but:
-only the first time elemental dmg is received, after which there seems to be no further effect.
For example: Using a Resist electricity potion 38
-first electrical dmg + not at or having reached max tox = resisted 12 points of dmg at cost of 16 tox, and additionally takes 20 elec dmg
-no further effect a few rounds later, after this first electrical dmg reduction, in spite of further elec dmg of 42, 25, 38 + not at or reaching max tox (well...I never see the "resisted" cbt log msg again, in any case...)
I'm confused to the description of these and how these work: Do these potions have a time limit or only work on the first hit?
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Post by Kitsunenotsume on Jan 20, 2017 10:59:56 GMT -5
The Elemental Resist potions have a duration of only a couple minutes. Not sure the actual length, but for reference I sometimes need 2 when fighting Akhests((or however is spelt) due to the longer combat duration. While active, they reduce a portion of incoming respective elemental damage (more with higher ranks) into toxicity at a fixed rate (about 3:4 is what I've usually seen). If the toxicity from the Resist potion would cause your toxicity to max out, it does so and cancels any further duration for the potion, thereby not having any further effect (no vomit or w/e).
Unlike the normal buff potions, Resist potions are temporary and really need to be imbibed the round before or during combat to make the most of it, since it only lasts for the duration of a single combat. This it is significantly different from most buff potions, which can be drunk whenever and last until the next time your HP gets reset (either rest, getting downed, or server reset).
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Post by gazoo on Jan 21, 2017 12:33:53 GMT -5
Alright, that seems in line with the behavior I am seeing.
Kind of makes them 1% niche items and [IMO] mostly pointless for 99% of all elemental situations, unless the battle ends in a few rounds and utterly massive elemental damage occurs up front.
Basically due to the weighing HP retored and tox added due to a healing pot vs the limited time available + the % and 3/4 damage conversion to tox. That's assuming you keep your tox blank, as well.
Not to mention the economic saving with the healing pots.
(Niche example might be slamming them periodically for Acid in Black Dragon breath if bad positioning or one of those super-beetles spraying every round -which is extremely rare behavior for that beetle- ...but even so, chugging a couple of instant heals may simply be better due to the % and 3/4 nature of the resists.)
These could elemental potions could use some tweaks. Again - IMHO.
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Post by Kitsunenotsume on Jan 21, 2017 14:46:39 GMT -5
I have found that the Elemental Resist potions are quite potent when one is aware of the incoming threat: one potion usually lasts long enough to take out one of the corners of the Hall of Seasons, for example. Other useful scenarios include elemental heavy enemies, where the type is known before-hand or can be intuited: such as the Diver, Akhests, Gnomes, Cultists, Beetles, Dragons, Aberrations, etcetera: with reasonable returns. Fairly importantly, damage not taken cannot affect cumulative damage - a 20% reduction in incoming damage is a 20% reduction in the number of green potions you need to get back to where you were. I've also noticed that resistance potions help greatly with fire/acid DoTs and other high quantities of low damage (such as Tesla-Coil SMGs) as the resistance mitigates at least 1 damage from each tick, potentially combining to much greater effect and lower damage taken than against single strong attacks.
Their effectiveness is also significantly improved if combined with related damage mitigation. A fire resist potion by itself can be minor, but a fire-resist potion with Fireproofed Armor can add up a lot. James is capable of reaching 75% electrical damage reduction between his equipment bonuses and potions, which opens a variety more tactics and durability in certain situations. I do disclaim that James does not normally use healing potions in combat but I do use multiple buff-potions, so while my toxicity is not sitting at empty it is also not usually moving much.
That Said: I can see that having the actual numbers would be of assistance, knowing how long it lasts and what ratio of protection and toxicity to expect would result in a more clear understanding and potential suggestions for what said tweaks would entail.
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Post by Psionic-Entity on Jan 21, 2017 15:55:30 GMT -5
The current function for resist potions is that they last 60 seconds at level 1, which scales to 90 at 100. They use 5 toxicity by default. When you take damage of the specified element your toxicity goes up by 50% of the damage amount. The damage is resisted by 3 points for every 5 toxicity used at level 1, which scales to 1 for 1 at level 100.
By contrast a healing potion does 20 at level 1 and 30 at level 100, and uses 30 toxicity.
Also the various forms of mitigation are all multiplicative and not additive, so you're probably not sitting at 80-90% resist.
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Post by gazoo on Dec 16, 2017 10:21:09 GMT -5
RE: the newer implementation of these elemental resist potions:
For example, if the potion says for x seconds this potion causes you to absorb 50% of the acid damage you take at a cost of 1 pt tox for every 2 pts acid damage
This would mean you take the following acid damage until tox is maxed:
HP 50% Tox 25%
After tox has maxed, the damage reverts to default 100% acid dmg going to HP and the potion effect is no longer active. Tox slowly reduces as per standard and the base 5 tox elemental potion cost is no longer reserved.
^Correct?
1. Is this layered or stacking with other elemental % resists(armor, feats) of the same elemental type? layer = %(%(%)). Stack = %+%+% 2. Does this function identically on Npcs (injectors, dart) and if so, what is the typical Npc tox amount?
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Post by Kitsunenotsume on Dec 16, 2017 12:10:01 GMT -5
That is how they always worked (abet with tweaked numbers). As mentioned by PE in the last post, all percentage bonuses are multiplicative, and potion absorption comes into effect after static resistances. In your analogy, it is a lower 'layer' style.
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Post by gazoo on Dec 16, 2017 12:23:59 GMT -5
ok, thx. Should probably be wiki'd. It was never absolutely clear to me.
And the Npcs? What tox do they typically have and does it work? ie, always 100 tox or does it go >100 with increasing level?
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Post by Kitsunenotsume on Dec 16, 2017 12:30:38 GMT -5
Only pcs have a tox stat, so npcs they should just get resistance for as long as the duration lasts, but i do not have much experience with potions and hirelings.
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Post by Psionic-Entity on Dec 16, 2017 13:10:13 GMT -5
The numbers haven't been tweaked at all, either. The new description just describes what they've always done. For NPCs they just get resistance that caps out after a fixed amount of damage (varies by NPC level and also which henchman you get) since they don't have tox scores.
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Post by gazoo on Dec 16, 2017 13:29:10 GMT -5
So basically, there is no point in injecting Npcs with elemental resists? No tox simply means the effect instantly vanishes. (aside from the inherent effect you described above).
And this would also translate to other special potions that require a tox maintenance.
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Post by Psionic-Entity on Dec 16, 2017 14:22:43 GMT -5
Not having tox doesn't mean the same thing as always having a cap of zero.
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Post by gazoo on Dec 16, 2017 17:14:45 GMT -5
So....
In addition to the amount of elemental damage HP each gets --injecting Npcs will give them extra elemental potion protection (reduction) until the potion duration runs out?
(last post was a bit cryptic, PE).
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Post by Psionic-Entity on Dec 16, 2017 17:46:13 GMT -5
No, there isn't anything that convoluted going on. On a PC you get the effect as described, on an NPC you get something pretty close to it, but scripted in a different way because there isn't an NPC toxicity system that matches the PC one.
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Post by Kitsunenotsume on Dec 16, 2017 23:01:37 GMT -5
To break it down, gazoo : For a PC, a potion will have "for duration X, resist Y percent of [element] damage, break early if max-tox gets reached." with tox being gained at half the rate of acid taken. for an NPC, they will get "For duration X, resist Y percent of [element] damage, break early if max Z is reached." with Z being derived from hireling and level.
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