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Post by drunkensolamnic on Jul 23, 2015 7:59:36 GMT -5
It's alright. If people have a thing about faction identification sans colours, they could always just have badges, like real detectives and undercover cops and deputy sherriffs from the Wild Wild West. A little badge was the only way to tell a deputy from an outlaw, in spaghetti westerns. But the good guys always wore the white hats and the bad guys always wore the black ones...
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Post by Fuzz on Jul 23, 2015 8:05:44 GMT -5
Part of the color logic kinda relates to game design theory, particularly based off some actual research (!) Valve did years ago with TF2 in regards to how players effectively identify friend or foe, and further determine what type of threat said foe is. This why characters in TF2 have such distinctive silhouettes and the areas where they have color are very uniform. We can't go that far, and also this isn't an FPS, so the same logic doesn't apply, but finding the balance between having some sort of visual similarity (which helps build camaraderie subconsciously, whether you agree it does or not) while also allowing for individualization is what our goal is. The current system was what we landed on because we felt individuality and customization are the most important things in a PW system. It's why inn rooms have furniture you can place, that tailor system is there, and the entire gameplay system is built around the idea that your character can be anything you make him/her, there are no class or alignment restrictions, or limits on what skills you can take or how to build your class because a certain attribute is more important for them.
We're realizing the limitations of the system, which is what prompted this poll, but we can probably find a good middle ground. Badges are the traditional thing, but again, they're not visual, and sometimes it gets tiring showing your badge for the millionth time, plus it's an extra thing that needs to be coded. Visual cues work well to solve that issue, but forcing a specific hat or cloak is also an issue, since not everyone wants that, either.
I think for now, we might convert to 1- A specific shade of color for each Faction, and 2- A specific area of the body that each Faction prefers to have their color displayed
Since the tailoring system is really robust and you can even specify asymmetric components to your armor, I think this is a pretty doable middle ground. Expect to see some uniform regulation posts in your faction subforums... the outlines will list the bare minimum you need to have when you're "in uniform." Any further coloring is totally up to you.
So for the Chesters, as an example, it will be a Hunter Green armband on the left upper arm of some sort. Could be cloth, could be metal, whatever, but something Hunter Green should be there. The Cathedral might go for kneepads (since they kneel to pray) while the CCPD might go for a right shoulder pauldron. Crowders might all wear a bright red glove on their left hand.
That sorta thing work, or is it still too complicated/too limiting to non-faction people?
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Post by tildryn on Jul 23, 2015 8:16:22 GMT -5
Crowders might all wear a bright red glove on their left hand. Only if they're Smooth Criminals.
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Post by ronan on Jul 23, 2015 9:01:44 GMT -5
I like the idea of customization, but factional colors and items. I think it's fine how it is now, but other factions need their distinguishing item just like us Templars have. Grayson certainly is looking forward to his baller cloak. . Not necessarily to having silver knees..... Though his plate is, of course, always well polished!
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Post by Fuzz on Jul 23, 2015 9:16:12 GMT -5
I like the idea of customization, but factional colors and items. I think it's fine how it is now, but other factions need their distinguishing item just like us Templars have. Grayson certainly is looking forward to his baller cloak. . Not necessarily to having silver knees..... Though his plate is, of course, always well polished! We all know you'll get those knees dirty soon enough, Ronan.
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Post by ronan on Jul 23, 2015 9:55:39 GMT -5
Aww, Fuzz, you'll give away my secret! On a more serious note.... What if each faction had several discerning colors assigned to it rather a vague one? I've noticed each faction actually has many factions under it, especially the crowders. To use the temple for an example, those who are simply members of the church could use silver as a sign of purity, whereas templar applicants could design their own red cloak with gold trim to try and emulate the Templars cloak.... Which they get when they join. The light of the coming dawn, and all that? Perhaps the crowders all use a base red, but.... The wolves mix it up with some blue, and the apples have green trim. The chesters..... Could all look like leprechauns or Santa helpers? I'm..... running out of ideas at this point, but the basic one stays the same. . On second thought, that would just complicate things so much more. The way it is now seems the simplest.
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Post by masovius on Jul 23, 2015 10:05:50 GMT -5
Certain factions should definitely have uniforms. I think it should honestly come down to the factions ideology. Colour schemes aren't even necessary if you have a very specific uniform to be worn on-duty.
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Post by elektroviking on Jul 23, 2015 10:21:59 GMT -5
I like the idea of one piece of the armor being uniform among the whole faction. Only seeing it a negative if that one Armor Part doesn't work on your prefered ArmorSkin.
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Post by windrider on Jul 23, 2015 10:52:29 GMT -5
Or race. NWN2 customization engine for armors is heavily tilted towards the "Human" sized avatars. Most of the cool cloaks and armor just don't show up on dwarves and to a lesser extent gnomes, just to keep that in mind if uniforms become a thing.
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Post by FoogooFish on Jul 23, 2015 10:55:10 GMT -5
I think that having 'some' uniformity is a good thing, but all-in-all I can't say that I like having all the primary colors dedicated to factions. Anyone not in a faction is relegated to browns, blacks, and whites, and anyone who might want to wear something else will be subjected to "you can't use that - that's ours!" RP. I can see the more lawful / orderly groups having a uniform item, such as the cloaks mentioned by Ronan, but the thought of all the Crowders conforming to reds, or even the Chesters conforming to greens just baffles me. Everything we as players have been taught IC through the tutorial and lore is that Calidor is a place in chaos - except for all the neatly color coded factions, of course. I was even asked by Fuzz (and I'm legitimately not trying to pick on you, Fuzz!) why my PC wasn't wearing any green, and it was recommended that I correct the oversight post-haste. While I know that Fuzz only meant well, the rebellious player in me thought... why? Mainly because this snippet in the CDA write-up suggests it isn't required: (Emphasis mine.) My sentiment is that my PC can be a loyal member without flaunting her status, because ultimately it's the results that matter - and not whether she's wearing a certain color. In short, none of the factions are a sports team, so why do they need sports team colors? Let there be some mystery and intrigue as to who is within what group IG.
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Post by Fuzz on Jul 23, 2015 10:57:13 GMT -5
Or race. NWN2 customization engine for armors is heavily tilted towards the "Human" sized avatars. Most of the cool cloaks and armor just don't show up on dwarves and to a lesser extent gnomes, just to keep that in mind if uniforms become a thing. And this is why we didn't do uniforms and why armor parts work better. And yeah, multiple colors complicated things. Also the Templar cloak is getting a facelift in a coming update, so Helen will be a bit more monochrome.
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Post by Fuzz on Jul 23, 2015 11:00:39 GMT -5
I think that having 'some' uniformity is a good thing, but all-in-all I can't say that I like having all the primary colors dedicated to factions. Anyone not in a faction is relegated to browns, blacks, and whites, and anyone who might want to wear something else will be subjected to "you can't use that - that's ours!" RP. I can see the more lawful / orderly groups having a uniform item, such as the cloaks mentioned by Ronan, but the thought of all the Crowders conforming to reds, or even the Chesters conforming to greens just baffles me. Everything we as players have been taught IC through the tutorial and lore is that Calidor is a place in chaos - except for all the neatly color coded factions, of course. I was even asked by Fuzz (and I'm legitimately not trying to pick on you, Fuzz!) why my PC wasn't wearing any green, and it was recommended that I correct the oversight post-haste. While I know that Fuzz only meant well, the rebellious player in me thought... why? Mainly because this snippet in the CDA write-up suggests it isn't required: (Emphasis mine.) My sentiment is that my PC can be a loyal member without flaunting her status, because ultimately it's the results that matter - and not whether she's wearing a certain color. In short, none of the factions are a sports team, so why do they need sports team colors? Let there be some mystery and intrigue as to who is within what group IG. And that's a fair stance, too. The colors are going to be rehashed and more specifics given. Let's try the specific armor part thing and see how that works for people.
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Post by fuzziebunny on Jul 23, 2015 11:29:39 GMT -5
I wish you could mix and match what you do for the factions. A uniform or identifying item or armor part totally makes since for some of the factions such as the CCP or even the Church. These, to me, seem like factions you, as a PC, should be able to identify on sight if that player is "on duty". The bad crowd mostly seems like typical gangs so colors seem like a good idea. It creates the whole turf feel. But then you also have your mobish seeming crowd so, I don't know. Are you looking for one solution to all factions or is it still up in the air?
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Post by greypawn on Jul 23, 2015 11:43:10 GMT -5
You can adjust your look to be in sync with NPCs of your faction and thus have an uniform, no? And colors are optional to players, as are they to NPCs... no? They are just general identifiers associated with the group. You are still American though you aren't walking around in red white and blue, no? Hopefully we keep something like black and browns as the go to neutral. As far as colors go, I'd like to see them done so we have a dominate color then two secondaries. For example, I was asking Fuzz last night to do something like this for the bad crowd default NPCs on the main three gangs.
Character type: Del Mazzi Foot-soldier Dominate Color: Deep Dark Red Secondary Colors: Golds and whites Style: Victorian; Conservative stealth to fashionable salesperson
Character type: Apple Street Foot-soldier Dominate Color: Bright Apple Red Secondary colors: Browns and greens Style: Psycho steampunk; Thug to down right insane
Character type: Wolve Foot-solider Dominate Color: General 'of the people' Red Secondary Colors: Blacks and blues Style: Industrial; Conventional warehouse/dockwork to gadget innovator
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Post by greypawn on Jul 23, 2015 12:18:40 GMT -5
I suppose my point is that when you see somebody walking down the street in blue they are a person just wearing blue. People wear blue, cops wear blue. That person wearing blue may or may not be a cop, or they might just be going to the cubs (blue) game. Maybe they are a cop going to the cubs game. Maybe they are a cardinals fan (red) who lost a bet and now have to wear a cubs jersey.
Just chill and role play it out, yo.
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