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Post by judicator on Jul 28, 2015 21:43:40 GMT -5
According to one player I spoke with, it was getting soaked by DR.
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Post by Psionic-Entity on Jul 28, 2015 21:50:02 GMT -5
According to one player I spoke with, it was getting soaked by DR. Having looked at the script it seems pretty unlikely, but I'll look in to it. For actual changes I'll try to get something done this weekend. Work nights are too short to figure out balance update material.
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Post by electrohydra on Jul 28, 2015 22:11:39 GMT -5
It's been a while, but when I used it it was not stopped by DR.
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Post by Sobriquet on Jul 30, 2015 2:11:08 GMT -5
With regards to stealth, what are the plans with sneak attack? At the moment, I think the general opinion has been that it's underwhelming. Little worried about overbuffing but I think it needs some help. Not very many people noticed when it was broken/fixed/had its damage tick rate tripled. Understandable. Maybe make stealth attack damage tied towards weapon size/type and whether you're using an offhand? At the moment you can stealth / stealth attack with giant hammers, which is a bit silly. It'd be nice for one handing a short sword or dual wielding daggers to be an actual effective choice, which they're certainly not at the moment. I have yet to figure out any reason to use a dagger, actually. Also, this might merit a bug report post, but stealth attacks still aren't doing anything for me, if they've been fixed. I don't see any damage ticking away on mobs.
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Post by drunkensolamnic on Jul 30, 2015 8:01:41 GMT -5
Conceal-ability and role-play would be my big two reasons for using one.
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Post by kingofaquilonia on Jul 30, 2015 9:55:22 GMT -5
Axel being one of the main hammer users... He still often hits for 0 dmg or like 4 or 5. Again though of course it has the better base dmg because it has terrible critical stats.
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Post by frenzied on Jul 30, 2015 11:06:15 GMT -5
Hammers having better minimum and maximum damage far, far outweighs having a 20x2 critical hit range, and with the numbers that it has it even outdoes the 18-20x3 that you can get on a rapier. When power attack is brought into the mix it outpaces its peers severely. When you have basic damage output like that, you could frankly run around trashing people with a 20x1 crit.
When talking average damage in dnd it is an extremely deceptive measurement, but in a game that breaks down into the efficiency of your numbers it can mean a huge amount. A 10 average damage compared to a 14 average damage may not seem like a lot, when we're talking warhammer vs. rapier, but you have to remember that in base 3.5 dnd the average damage of a greatsword is 7, compared to a longsword having 4.5. Just to put them right side by side, a mercurial core rapier will marginally outdo a critical on a hammer, but will severely underperform in regular hits. If you decided to give a longsword x3 criticals and compared it to the greatsword, your criticals would come out to almost the same difference as the warhammer/rapier.
If I could have a one handed greatsword at no penalty in base dnd, you know for sure I would be using it over any other weapon available.
Without armor accounted for, a damage race would dictate that a hammer wielder would beat the crap out of any mirrored character that is using a different weapon. When you DO account for armor, the hammer's damage range means that it is much more likely to penetrate armor and deal damage, whereas you have to rely on critical hits with other weapons to do reliable damage.
It may seem like I'm on a hammer crusade in this thread, and it's because I totally am. It's one of the more egregious affronts to balance that is currently in melee combat. I'm not fancy enough to use PE's spreadsheet that accurately breaks down statistics, but I hope that my post accurately hitting (I think?) every one of the bits of analysis that he pulled a few posts after mine can give me some credibility to my feelings. I will totally toot my own horn when I say that I have a decently intuitive grasp of dnd mechanics. Even though we have auxiliary systems thrown in, all that means is that we're playing 3.5 DnD with different ways of getting numbers.
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Post by Psionic-Entity on Jul 30, 2015 11:12:09 GMT -5
Hammers are strictly better that other melee weapons against all armor types. That isn't an opinion thing, I just haven't had time to work on a balance update.
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Post by kingofaquilonia on Jul 30, 2015 11:14:34 GMT -5
I'm fairly certain claymores have higher minimum damage
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Post by Psionic-Entity on Jul 30, 2015 11:35:19 GMT -5
They do.
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Post by tildryn on Jul 30, 2015 12:31:27 GMT -5
Little worried about overbuffing but I think it needs some help. Not very many people noticed when it was broken/fixed/had its damage tick rate tripled. Understandable. Maybe make stealth attack damage tied towards weapon size/type and whether you're using an offhand? At the moment you can stealth / stealth attack with giant hammers, which is a bit silly. It'd be nice for one handing a short sword or dual wielding daggers to be an actual effective choice, which they're certainly not at the moment. I have yet to figure out any reason to use a dagger, actually. Also, this might merit a bug report post, but stealth attacks still aren't doing anything for me, if they've been fixed. I don't see any damage ticking away on mobs. You can still catch people off-guard with larger weapons. There's no need to force everyone into pigeonholed 'traditional' roles where every rogue must use two daggers.
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Post by mireigi on Jul 30, 2015 14:46:04 GMT -5
Understandable. Maybe make stealth attack damage tied towards weapon size/type and whether you're using an offhand? At the moment you can stealth / stealth attack with giant hammers, which is a bit silly. It'd be nice for one handing a short sword or dual wielding daggers to be an actual effective choice, which they're certainly not at the moment. I have yet to figure out any reason to use a dagger, actually. Also, this might merit a bug report post, but stealth attacks still aren't doing anything for me, if they've been fixed. I don't see any damage ticking away on mobs. You can still catch people off-guard with larger weapons. There's no need to force everyone into pigeonholed 'traditional' roles where every rogue must use two daggers. Could rework it so that it works differently for each type of weapon, with the size of the weapon determining how potent/impotent the bonusses are.
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Post by electrohydra on Jul 30, 2015 21:01:25 GMT -5
Ironically enough, base NWN2 (And D&D to a less extent) melee damage output is all about those crits, and your greatsword would be worst then a scimitar. Not that this is applicable to engines, since we don't have nearly as many ways of increasing damage.
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Post by drunkensolamnic on Jul 30, 2015 21:17:40 GMT -5
Some weapons have a -1ab value compared to others. AKA: Bastard swords, Scimitars. Why not give Warhammers a -1AB too, they're after all heavy and unwieldy? Wouldn't that balance it out some?
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Post by drunkensolamnic on Jul 30, 2015 21:47:59 GMT -5
This would combo with easing off the -2ab penalty to the duel wielders down to a -1.
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