|
Post by sporked on Jul 31, 2015 18:53:43 GMT -5
The problem with this sniper idea, while certainly spiffy, is that most nwn2 dungeons/areas don't give you room enough to USE that kind of ability. Take the Cultists for example, there's only one or two open spaces in that entire dungeon; the rest is made up entirely of narrow/tight spaces. This isn't unusual; punishing said sniper items/builds for being forced into close quarters (When they almost certainly will more often than not) is just.. bleh. No one in their right mind would do it.
Edit: I frankly do not understand the -4 to hit when in melee, either. Guns aren't long bows or thrown weapons, or even remotely difficult to point and pull in close quarters. Reload? Sure. And there's a penalty for that all it's own. But to hit? Shit, try to MISS at that distance.
|
|
|
Post by kingofaquilonia on Jul 31, 2015 20:25:06 GMT -5
When someone is swinging a deadly weapon at you , it is quite difficult to to get a good shot
|
|
|
Post by sporked on Jul 31, 2015 20:37:12 GMT -5
Mmm.. no, it's really not. You don't NEED a good shot, at that range any hit's going to leave a fist sized exit wound, it's not going to be stopped by armor, or stray from the target due to whatever reason. You could hit the meat of their thigh and you know what? That'll STILL mess them up. Guns are NOT hard to use in close quarters, hell for many they're easier (Like me.. quick fire range, you were my bragging right) to use reflexively. You don't have to aim, you don't have to worry about where you hit. You just have to point and pull.
Particularly with anything short, like a hand gun.
Edit: To clarify, it's no more difficult than when wielding ANY deadly weapon. You could argue the melee guy there has to take a -4 to hit because he's charging someone with a effin' boomstick. There's no way everyone in the realms has the nerves of steel required to do something like that with 0 hesitation. That aside, why don't you take a -4 to hit when trying to stab someone with a knife, when they have a sword? That's a more realistic situation, where you're struggling to deal with their reach. In short, there's a lot going unaccounted for here, and it's bizarre to see only one weapon type suffer for it when it's not even an overwhelming weapon type otherwise.
|
|
|
Post by electrohydra on Jul 31, 2015 21:19:02 GMT -5
Point blank shot could certainly work. I don't think this will make gunners able to solo, but sure, it would be a neat skill to add.
|
|
|
Post by eba on Jul 31, 2015 23:14:59 GMT -5
THis idea only works if you have enough ability points to be able to reasonably switch between weapons. So far, you most certainly don't. Its almost like we're all low level and shouldn't be expecting to have an easy time or an individual performance that can answer every problem yet? I feel the server is in a good place balance wise for team-play. If you focus on trying make everything able to solo, then you're going to have a game that's too easy and no fun. Ummm, Ziska can solo the graveyards right? And maybe the crypts? I can't at all, no gunner can. In any party, it would be better to have everyone with two handed except for one boss. we don't HAVE good balance because meleers are better. Any party is better served replacing a gunner with a meleer (Not a two hands meleer though) unless you need to shoot the cultist boss.
|
|
|
Post by drunkensolamnic on Jul 31, 2015 23:23:46 GMT -5
Honestly she can't. In any given combat scenario I'm a couple bad rolls from getting floored. My damage output does not exceed ranged weaponry in most instances either. I also have both Deader and Skeleton bestiary entries, and in addition my survivability is tied more to wearing high-end armor than anything else. I survive to fight again, because I soak enough damage or when I was in light armor, avoided enough hits.
As for parties full of two handed useers... nope, physical limitations on who can reach the monsters limit that usefulness, and they'd never manage to tank out most of the spawns without a shield user with them.
Best parties I've seen have a nice balance between shield users, heavy weapon users, and ranged personel. Usually you want 2 ranged characters for every 1 melee.
|
|
|
Post by eba on Jul 31, 2015 23:40:46 GMT -5
Honestly she can't. In any given combat scenario I'm a couple bad rolls from getting floored. My damage output does not exceed ranged weaponry in most instances either. I also have both Deader and Skeleton bestiary entries, and in addition my survivability is tied more to wearing high-end armor than anything else. I survive to fight again, because I soak enough damage or when I was in light armor, avoided enough hits. As for parties full of two handed useers... nope, physical limitations on who can reach the monsters limit that usefulness, and they'd never manage to tank out most of the spawns without a shield user with them. Best parties I've seen have a nice balance between shield users, heavy weapon users, and ranged personel. Usually you want 2 ranged characters for every 1 melee. 2 handed weapons objectively do more damage then guns against armored opponents.
|
|
|
Post by drunkensolamnic on Jul 31, 2015 23:45:58 GMT -5
There's more to surviving a dungeon than raw damage output. Watch the Frasier - Ali fight if you need a quick 101 on the importance of a good defensive game.
Also, block is god.
|
|
|
Post by eba on Jul 31, 2015 23:49:22 GMT -5
There's more to surviving a dungeon than raw damage output. Watch the Frasier - Ali fight if you need a quick 101 on the importance of a good defensive game. Also, block is god. My defensive game is to run away and hide.
|
|
|
Post by nippon on Jul 31, 2015 23:52:51 GMT -5
Why solo anything? The pay out is crap and you usually wont get EXP progression. Find a group and smash stuff out for phat profits. Been soloing stuff as a plate sword and board tank and it's really not worth the time investment.
|
|
|
Post by eba on Jul 31, 2015 23:56:55 GMT -5
Why solo anything? The pay out is crap and you usually wont get EXP progression. Find a group and smash stuff out for phat profits. Been soloing stuff as a plate sword and board tank and it's really not worth the time investment. *Stands in the graveyard hoping people show up* I dunno, why would anyone solo?
|
|
|
Post by Lugwy on Aug 1, 2015 0:04:55 GMT -5
For fun?
|
|
Genbor
Gumshoe
"If you die, don't come crying to me about it."
Posts: 81
|
Post by Genbor on Aug 1, 2015 0:52:52 GMT -5
I completely agree sporkyed this is something I've also mentioned often, that guns are not bows that need to be drawn so that when fighting up close they get a penalty, nor do guns have enough damage to name this a balancing choice.
I know the feeling eba. Sometimes because of time-zones, there's barely anyone online, with no parties being formed. Another time, is when everyone is off in whatever dungeon and you can wait all you want, nobody will show up. Nor can you spend your time RPing while you wait since... everybody else is in the dungeon to which you did not get the memo.
Also, with things currently the way they are, I dislike joining parties for one reason: unreliable internet. I am currently in a country where power outages occur every 3 hours (but are not tied to that schedule, they can happen on or off schedule), and with power goes my internet. So I'm in a party and suddenly *poof* I am gone. Not only will my share of the loot be most often than not forfeit, but also I feel it's rude to others, even if others would be understanding and didn't think so.
If there were other methods to obtaining a reliable income other than grinding dungeons everyday, then this problem wouldn't really exist. If in crafting you didn't buy experience points with cash, but instead had to use ingredients you gathered you or some other player; say you had to visit a mine to get ore, from which you'd forge the iron ingots needed to craft swords/guns/etc.; this whole need for soloing would be solved, as frankly the only thing I spend my money on is crafting. But I digress...
With Point Blank Shot, you might not be able to solo, as Ziska can not really solo Graveyard either, and depends on rolls; but you'd be able to try at least, which is impossible at the moment. It might also make handguns (see Revolver/Handung/etc.) a bit more reliable and we could perhaps see more use from it, as right now it's mediocre range, mediocre damage, the -4 penalty as well as the need to reload every so often makes it pretty unusable in a fight against another foe.
|
|
|
Post by nito on Aug 1, 2015 1:16:26 GMT -5
I'll preface this by saying that I always approach these kinds of discussions with PvP being my primary consideration, as 1) it is the place where imbalances will almost always be the most glaring; and 2) sooner or later, PvP is unavoidable on a server that promotes player conflict.
That said, I think we need access to a test bed where we can play around with all the abilities and max level items available before we make any sweeping judgments on balance. What's good now at lower skill levels could very well end up being subpar down the line. On paper firearms are already going to be extremely good at skill cap because of the +5 accuracy they can get via talents. This is huge in a low BAB setting, especially if all weapons max out at +10 attack as seems to be the case now. Meleers can't use any of their fancy activated abilities if they can't land hits. This is even more pertinent when you consider that the vast majority of players seem to use light armor, but the disparity between armor types would require its own discussion.
|
|
|
Post by eba on Aug 1, 2015 1:53:04 GMT -5
I'll preface this by saying that I always approach these kinds of discussions with PvP being my primary consideration, as 1) it is the place where imbalances will almost always be the most glaring; and 2) sooner or later, PvP is unavoidable on a server that promotes player conflict. That said, I think we need access to a test bed where we can play around with all the abilities and max level items available before we make any sweeping judgments on balance. What's good now at lower skill levels could very well end up being subpar down the line. On paper firearms are already going to be extremely good at skill cap because of the +5 accuracy they can get via talents. This is huge in a low BAB setting, especially if all weapons max out at +10 attack as seems to be the case now. Meleers can't use any of their fancy activated abilities if they can't land hits. This is even more pertinent when you consider that the vast majority of players seem to use light armor, but the disparity between armor types would require its own discussion. This is a false dilemma I think Even if something at rank 100 is the best and by far better then anything else at rank 100, but ranks 1 through 99 still are a crummy grind to power through, it is still a terrible weapon.
|
|